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  1. #11

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    Lisbet,

    I'm inclined to think Alice was born in the Manchester area as her father gave Manchester as her birth place in 1861.

    I have found a baptism for Samuel, and one for a son Isaac who perhaps died in infancy, both in Manchester, but not found baptisms for Elizabeth or Alice.......so frustrating!
    Alma

  2. #12
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    Thank you Alma. Could you give me the refs to the baptisms please?

    many thanks.

  3. #13

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    I also found a death registration for Louisa Smith 11/1/1854. she is buried at Elvaston, Derbyshire.
    Are you sure it is your Louisa Smith? In 1851 there's a Louisa Smith born 1818 in Elvaston, living Elvaston with husband John and their children, I can't see her on later census.

    HO107; Piece: 2140; Folio: 574; Page: 5

    Unless you're sure Lilbet I would doubt it. Your Louisa's parents were living St Alkmunds Derby and it appears Isaac was in the Manchester area so her burial in Elvaston seems unlikely, but maybe you have her death certificate.
    Alma

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisbet 35 View Post
    Thank you Alma. Could you give me the refs to the baptisms please?

    many thanks.
    Do you have Ancestry subs, if so I'll point you to them, otherwise I'll transcribe them. One thing I noticed is Isaac is described as a joiner as he is in 1841, not sure exactly what a pattern maker is, but then, as now, people did change their occupation.

    ETA: ah a pattern maker did work with wood. https://rmhh.co.uk/occup/p.html
    Alma

  5. #15

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    The baptisms are in this Ancestry collection. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2965

    Name: Isaac Smith
    Birth Date: 14 Aug 1841
    Baptism Date: 5 May 1844
    Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
    Father's name: Isaac Smith (joiner)
    Mother's name: Louisa Smith
    Abode: Salford

    Name: Samuel Smith
    Baptism Date: 22 Sep 1844
    Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
    Father's name: Isaac Smith (joiner)
    Mother's name: Louisa Smith
    Abode: Salford
    Alma

  6. #16
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    No I'm not sure as I haven't got her death certificate.

  7. #17
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    Thank you Alma. Yes I have an Ancestry sub. I'll check it out. I saw that Isaac was a joiner in 1841 Census and thought it fitted in with pattern maker.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    ETA: ah a pattern maker did work with wood. https://rmhh.co.uk/occup/p.html
    The third entry on the page for Pattern Maker states "Makes wood patterns for the construction of steel or other metal objects. eg. Patterns are made for ship construction, for castings etc."

  9. #19
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    Thank you Margarita and Alma. That is a really useful website. I imagine that a pattern maker couod have worked for the cotton mills as well.

  10. #20

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    Hi Lisbet,

    I've been giving more thought to your query and do wonder if Isaac's first wife, Louisa, died before 1852 when Elizabeth was born. It is odd that there's a large age gap between Samuel and Elizabeth. If only the 1851 census wasn't missing! Do you have a copy of Isaac's marriage certificate when he married Louisa, if not it may be an idea to either order it or try and locate a parish register copy, then you'll know his father's name, which in turn will help to search for a second marriage.
    Alma

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