John Salter birth in 1833

[Bondgt]

Good afternoon. I have hit a bit of a wall with two sides of my family. I have not been at this game for a great deal of time and therefore may not know all the tricks etc, so please bear with me.
My first wall, and the one I am concerned with for the time being is John Salter born 1833 in Bloomsbury in London. I am looking for his father who I believe was also called John.
John junior was a soldier and gives his place of birth as St Anns in Middlesex, which becomes Bloomsbury on the census.
I have two possible people who could be the father. One is married to Caroline and lived in Chelsea. Their John Jr was born on the 22nd January 1833. Occupation is a print cutter. Subsequent children are born and the occupation changes for almost each one!
The other possible is married to Charlotte and John Jr is born on the 22nd April. The occupation is given as a coachman, living in Bryanston Square.
So which one is correct? Just to add to the mix, on John Jr’s marriage certificate John senior’s occupation is listed as a carpenter.
John Jr does not seem to have a middle name on any of the records. John married to Caroline has the middle name of Thomas and John married to Charlotte does not seem to have a middle name.
John Jr’s army number was 319/483 and he lived in Hound in Hampshire.
Can anyone help with this?

[christanel]

and John married to Charlotte does not seem to have a middle name

There is a Non-conformist record on ancestry that gives a birth date of a John Salter to John Henry Salter and Charlotte nee Judge on the 25 October 1834. Address Greys Inn Lane St Pancras This John appears to be with his mother Charlotte and 2 younger siblings in 1841 census HO107 Piece 665 Book 4 Folio 54 Page 7 St Mary Islington West Middlesex.
Looking at the military record for your bloke his birth date is c 1832.
Then there is the John Salter age 10 born c1831, also with parents John (a hawker) and Charlotte. HO107 Piece 709 Book 4 Folio 5 Page 3 St Leonard Shoreditch County
Have you followed all these John Salters through the censuses to see which can be eliminated. Yours attested c 1856 so was in the army 1861 and 1871, where were the others?
Christina

[geneius]

John SALTER attested in 1856 therefore he may not appear on the 1861 census unless he was based in the UK. His calling was that of a Carpenter.

Do you have his marriage entry? What was Elizabeth's maiden name and John's marital status?

He served in New Zealand circa 1867 - 1870 ( a period 3 years 230/365 days)

Name: John Gilbert Salter
Birth Date: 1867
Registration Place: New Zealand
Folio Number: 419

There is also a registration on British nationals armed forces births

1871
RG10; Piece: 819; Folio: 120; Page: 10
Army Service Corps Alderhot
John Satler 38 St Anne's Middlesex
Elizabeth Satler 35 Woolwich Kent
Elizabeth Satler 10 Aldershot
Sarah Satler 8 Aldershot
John Satler 4 New Zealand
Kate Satler 2 Aldershot

1881
RG11; Piece: 1216; Folio: 39; Page: 33
Ivy Cottage Hound Hamps
John Salter 48 Westminster ? Pensioner
Elizabeth Salter 47 Woolwich
John Salter 14 New Queensland Wanganni ( John Gilbert)
Amelia Salter 8 Kildare Ireland

[christanel]

John Salter 14 New Queensland Wanganni ( John Gilbert)

This is Wanganui, New Zealand on the image. The new spelling is Whanganui.

Christina

[Bondgt]

Thank you everyone for your help.

I have looked at several of those births given and have discounted them mainly on the basis of where they took place. Several times in his records he gives St Anns as his birth place and backs that up occasionally with Westminster. Shoreditch for example is a reasonable distance from Westminster.

I have just been looking at his military discharge paperwork and I had previously thought that it gives his age as 45 and 7/12s at his discharge in November 1877. Hence the date of birth sometime in 1833. However, I now think that the 7/12s maybe 1/12, which does give a different perspective on his birth date. So thank you for making me look again!

In 1861 I believe he may have been in Ireland with the 3rd Battalion Military Train.

The entry for 1871 is correct, although with the wrong spelling for the surname.

I do have the marriage certificate and his wife's maiden name was Burnett. His father is recorded as a carpenter.

Interestingly, I have two records of his signature (rather than the usual X) which would appear to show that he had some sort of education.

[helachau]

Thank you everyone for your help.


I do have the marriage certificate and his wife's maiden name was Burnett. His father is recorded as a carpenter.

.

A John Salter, born 20 Nov 1830, address Willow Street, was baptised 20 July 1834 at St John the Evangelist, Smith Square - parents John, a cabinet maker and Margaret.

Willow Street is in the Westminster/Shoreditch area and father's occupation compatible with "carpenter".

[helachau]

On the '41 Census, the John, "carpenter" above (#6), is a "Fr. polisher".

[helachau]

On his discharge papers John has his occupation as "carpenter". The John, born 1830, by 1851 is a "piano forte maker" - not quite the same thing! Yet to spot him in'61.

[Bondgt]

Thank you for the additional information. I am away for a few days so will not be able to update.

Many thanks again.

[Bondgt]

Having looked at the army discharge records I am now confident that as I said above John Snr was born in 1832 and probably at the beginning of October. This ties in with the census's as he would not have had his birthday by the date of the census and also by the army records themselves that say he was born in 1832.

I have for so long had the year 1833 in mind, but this is simply not the case. Having said that I can't find any births in 1832 that match, let alone a record of him in the census's following. So I am not much further forward!!

Just to add to this it would appear that Hound parish where he died and was, presumably buried, do not have any records available online, so I assume only a visit to the records office will tell me where he lies. The same applies to his son John Gilbert who died in 1921.