John or Jacob Jacobs born London c 1803

[PamJacobs]

Hi there,
I am an Australian trying to trace great great grandfather who emigrated to Australia. He was born in England around 1803 and appears in Australia around 1840s as a merchant. He was married twice - once probably in England and once again in Australia (to Sarah Myers). He had a son George Robert, born we think around 1836, most probably in the UK. There is a recollection of him having 10 children though some died. The ones we know of here in Australia are Sydney, Edwin, Louis, Joseph and Francis. Joseph became famous for his collections of folk tales and Jewish scholarship. On John's gravestone his parents are listed as Samuel and Rebecca. On the gravestone he is listed as 'Jacob, son of Samuel'.

He went back and forth to England with his Australian family
- 1851 UK census the family is in Bloomsbury (children are all listed as born in Sydney). John and Sarah are listed as born Undarewell - which does not seem to exist.
- 1861 census two of his boys, Edwin and Louis, are listed as scholars at Gloucester House, Kew, Surrey, England, carried on by Messrs Neumegen for over 60 years. Edwin is listed as born Holborn.

I cannot find a record of John's birth, or of either of his marriages, details of his parents and family in England, or of how and when he emigrated to Australia. I have tried Ancestry.com extensively. These are the key details I am trying to fill.

And I cannot find records of the births of any of his children here in Sydney. We have been through the birth records of the Jewish synagogue in Sydney and they do not appear.

We do not think he was a convict as having gone into the details of each one, they don't fit. However I could have missed something.

Sarah his wife here in Australia was the child of a convict and there is no record of a marriage registered. Sarah was baptised 8 July 1821 Lambeth St Mary which complicates things. Perhaps this is why the children's birth's were not registered with the Synagogue. The children were certainly given a very Jewish upbringing and they all belonged to the York Street Synagogue in Sydney.

If anyone can help I would be v grateful.

[phillip]

Pamela
For clarity is the Rookswood Jewish Cemetery Tombstone Record that for your John Jacobs?
John Jacobs Yaacov ben Moshe b 1805 Age 80 Death 7 Feb 1885 OGS 13 23

And for Sarah Jacobs nee Myers- Sarah Jacobs age 45 16 May 1865 OGS 5 54

If the above John is your John aka Jacob then you have his father's Hebrew name Moshe aka Moses so I am not sure where the Samuel comes from.
Phillip

[PamJacobs]

Hi Phillip,
Yes this is them
This Samuel/Moses issue has puzzled us too, and in John Levi’s book “These Are The Names”, it give Samuel rather than Moshe. The local Jewish Historical Society now thinks the Rookwood record is a transcription mistake. The reverse side of the gravestone actually reads -
A Man of Faith and Uprightness
Reb Jacobs
Son of Reb Samuel
Who passed away on the holy sabath
22 Shvat
Buried the next day
5645

Pam

[phillip]

Pam
As a help to other researchers- I have read the 2 baptism records for Sarah William/s dated 8 July 1821 Lambeth. She is recorded as Sarah -William/s MAYERS- her father is recorded as Charles Henry William/s Dead and her mother Clemintine/a Rebecca. Sarah was born in the Workhouse. Ancestry.Com have ( as you know from your research) among the Family Trees a Sarah MYERS arriving with 'parents' and siblings in Australia in 1822. Is she however, the correct Sarah given her father was already dead and she was living in 1821 in the Workhouse. The father of the 1822 Sarah was recorded as a watchmaker but he is not the same father as the Sarah baptised in 1821 and given as Dead.
Have I read these records correctly? The Jewish Connection for Sarah, if there is one, maybe via her mother Clemintine/a Rebecca MAYERS.
The 1851 Census with the odd birth location of Undarsewell ( difficult to work out the spelling ) for both John and Sarah is a puzzle because I have no idea where this place might be- I thought it might be part of London but this is speculation.

What other data do you have on John aka Jacob or is the bulk of it on Ancestry.Com?
Phillip

[phillip]

For other researchers- the mother of Sarah Myers appears in various Australian Convict Records as Clemintina Rebecca Myres aka Meares. She was convicted of Uttering Forged Bank Notes and transported for 14 years to Tasmania on the "Mary Anne" 29 March 1821 and in a 1825 record given as the wife of Charles Bradburn. There is no record of her parent's names in the Ancestry.Com Family trees.
Phillip

[PamJacobs]

Yes that is the info that we have on Sarah 'Myers'. Her mother Clementine was transported 1822 on the Mary Anne and Sarah and her older sister Matilda went with her. It is amazing how many different ways a name can be spelt!

We have no other info on John Jacobs other than the family he produced here in Sydney. We are trying to get back to his origins in UK. We are pretty sure he was in Australia by the early 1840s. The John Levy book says he arrived 1837 as a free man, and by 1842 was living in Sydney and exporting hides, but he includes no references. So far I have found no evidence of a John Jacobs arriving 1837. There is one arriving 1833 and one in 1836 as free men. Lots of John Jacobs convicts, and at first we thought this must be the case, but going through one after the other, we could not find one that matched well. John Jacobs seems to have been quite literate and quickly became a successful merchant in Sydney. We know nothing about his first wife.

[phillip]

Pam
I have Jacobs and Myers paternal ancestors but they are not part of your lines. If Jacob aka John was a "free man" then there should be a Criminal Record and also a transportation record for him. However, I also have 2 ancestors who were transported - both Jews- but they used alias pre their trial and also post trial. One went to Tasmania. Did Jacob aka John adopt an alias?
My two transported ancestors covered their tracks well and were "rejected" by their families.
Your Jacob aka John appears to have done well for himself and returned to the UK suggesting that he still retained contacts.
I will look further.
Phillip

[PamJacobs]

Phillip,
Thanks so much for your interest and replies. I appreciate it v much. The idea of a convict John (aka) Jacob Jacobs covering his tracks so well, was one of our early thoughts and would explain the lack of a registered marriage with Sarah or registered births of any of the children. We tried to put the pattern together for someone who by 1840s was a merchant and importer and travelling back and forth to London and just could not see it. So many of the convicts were fishmongers or labourers and the timing of their Tickets of Leave or Certificates of Freedom did not work. However the thought of use of an alias never occurred to me. How does one ever track that down? Would the birth or marriage records in the UK would cover Jewish births and marriages - or would these be registered pre 1830 somewhere else.
Again many thanks for you interest.
Pam

[PamJacobs]

Phillip,
Just one more thought - when someone here writes that a person arrived as a "free man" I am sure they mean not as a convict. But again it is no guarantee that the story that has come down the generations is correct! There is no record of where Levy got his information from. Here is a review of the John Levy book. https://ww
w.smh.com.au/news/book-reviews/these-are-the-names-jewish-lives-in-australia-17881850/2006/12/29/1166895469933.html .

[phillip]

Pam
You are right regarding "free man." On the subject of Jewish Records there are several important sites - see Cemetery Scribes and Synagogue Scribes for data on burials, photographs of tombstones, Secular; marriages; and other records - all Jewish; see also JewishGen for the UK Data Bases including London Trade Records; insurance policies; 1851 Census and a lot more- see also the family trees on this major site; Doreen Berger The Jewish Victorian Genealogical Information from the Jewish Newspapers 1861-1870; 1871- 1880 - these are 2 excellent volumes containing births, deaths, marriages plus Berger has linked family members; British Newspaper Archives; London Metropolitan Archives; Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain has a library plus numerous family trees; Society of Genealogists in London has the Colyer Fergusson and the Hyamson Anglo Jewish family trees; see British Jewry Archives and the regular postings regarding Jewish lines. There are many other sources but these are all ones I have used regularly over many years.
Phillip