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Thread: Frederick Bray
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01-06-2016, 9:51 PM #21
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02-06-2016, 9:34 AM #22
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Does it say where he was living?
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02-06-2016, 11:23 AM #23
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As Elsinore stated in #6, 18 Belview in 1911 and 69 in 1921. Although it may be 78, looking at original. Barton Township, part of Ward 8, City of Hamilton, Ontario
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02-06-2016, 11:39 AM #24janboothGuest
Good spot, Mona. I couldn't find this Frederick on the 1911 Canadian census at first, but have now found him, thanks to yourself. He is living at 18 Bellview, Barton Township, Hamilton, Ontario, with wife Lewers (presumably Louisa), and shows him as born January? (could be June or July) 1883, aged 28, emigrated to Canada in 1908, born England, nationality Canadian, occupation Woodworker. Wife Louisa born December 1882, aged 29, in England, emigrated to Canada in 1907 and is a Housewife.
The 1921 Canadian census shows Frederick & Louisa living at 69 Belview, Frederick, an Electrician, emigrating in 1906 and Louisa in 1908. They have 2 daughters, Margaret J, aged 9, born Ontario and Irene E, aged 2, born Ontario.
I can believe that Mollie could be a pet name for Margaret but Irene for Louisa?? And yet this is the only BRAY family I can find in Ontario with a husband Frederick & wife Louisa. And why would Frederick give his father as Frederick Henry & mother as Martha on his marriage record (and the original definitely shows Martha) when his parents were Thomas & Sarah and although he may not have remembered his father very well, he would certainly know his mother's forename. More questions for you, Trev.
Janet
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02-06-2016, 1:00 PM #25
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Once again thank you had more thoughts if the death in post 16 is his father Fred was only 8 my grandfather 11 did Fred go to live with his uncle Henry who was born Paddington 1845 I tried to find a marriage for Henry to check his wifes name but no luck.I do know my Grand fathers home life with a stepfather was not very good, but this only came to light some years after my grandfathers death.
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05-06-2016, 8:17 PM #26
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Thank's for this I did know about this voyage, but I didn't know how he got to Canada in 1906 I have now found who I think is him sailing from Liverpool 2/8/1905 on board Saxonia bound for Boston USA are there any records for people moving between USA and Canada
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06-06-2016, 9:33 AM #27janboothGuest
This F BRAY does look a likely candidate, doesn't he, as his occupation is shown as a Joiner. Date of embarkation is 2 August 1904 not 1905.
There are Border Crossing Lists on Ancestry and I have found 2 for Fred/Frederick BRAY but from 1910 and the occupations are incorrect in both cases, one being a miner and the other a calenderer which apparently is a lister of documents. Can rule out the latter as he hails from Macclesfield and has a wife Eleanor and just found another record for the former Frederick who was a miner and he hailed from Cornwall and was married to a K BRAY.
However, from the UK Passenger List records it looks as if Fred & Louisa returned to England sometime between 1911 and 1913, because of their passenger record on the Empress of Ireland which arrived at St Johns Newfoundland on 1 March 1913. This states that they both arrived in Canada in 1906, so Fred must have crossed from the US to Canada between 1904 & 1906. This fits in with the UK Incoming Passenger List records I found in post 14 and the fact they are both in the 1911 Canadian census of Hamilton.
Louisa WARWICK looks to have emigrated to Canada on board the Empress of Britain which arrived at Montreal on 5 June 1908, she being shown as aged 27, Domestic, and bound for Hamilton, Ontario, so it looks as if she may have come out specifically to marry Frederick as they were married 3 days later. Louisa WARWICK is living in Hampton in the 1891 census (RG12/616, folio 63, page 1) with parents Charles & Susan plus 2 sisters.
Janet
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09-06-2016, 4:22 PM #28
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This is a long shot everything now seems to tie up EXCEPT the parents name on his marriage cert. in Canada. Is this a plausible theory
When Freds father died did he go to live with Henry I have found a marriage on FMP 1875 Henry Bray married Either Mary Ann Nash or Jessie Martha Balcombe hence Henry & Martha as his parents on his marriage cert.
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10-06-2016, 10:01 AM #29janboothGuest
Not sure this is a particularly feasible explanation. He is living with mother & stepfather in the 1901 census, so doesn't give him a long time to live with uncle Henry before he emigrated and on his marriage record to Louisa shows his mother as Martha TURNER. Perhaps he deliberately gave false information on his marriage record because he wanted to forget about his past life in England or perhaps whoever transcribed the record just got it wrong. His accent must have been strange to Canadian ears and he may not have been particularly literate - Sarah may have been misheard as Martha. You will probably never know. As a postscript, the Henry BRAY who married in 1875 was married at St Giles Cripplegate to Mary Ann NASH and his father was a William BRAY, Labourer, so not uncle Henry at all. In fact I cannot find uncle Henry with any certainty after the 1861 census - at the moment.
Janet
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10-06-2016, 8:30 PM #30
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Thank you I can now see why I stopped doing this before, so frustrating, but I still have a months subscription on fmp so I will use that.
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