Trenerry - Perranzabuloe

[arghans]

Possibly her in 1861 as a general servant to the Hancock family in St Agnes.
Hendra Croft is just outside Goonhavern, heading towards Newquay. There are various mentions of the Trenerrys (not just the James and Ann family, but other, more distantly related ones) in Hendra Croft over the years.
James and Ann are my direct line by the way.

The lack of baptism is interesting. As you will probably know, the Perranzabuloe parish registers were seriously damaged at one point, but this baptism would be later than the damaged pages I think. I shall look at the register later and report back. I didn't transcribe that period myself, but will look for mistakes.

Mark (OPC for Perranzabuloe and Trenerry family member)

[arghans]

Looked at the register, didn't see any obvious error. The register is in good condition for this period.

I noticed that none of the children after John appear to be baptised, not just Elizabeth. Poverty perhaps? You will probably be aware of the 1843 saga regarding the removal order and dispute between Perranzabuloe and Newlyn East parishes re James and family?

Mark

[Heather]

Hi Mark,

I think I may have previously had contact with you through Ancestry - did you send me the Trenerry Gedcom? Still working my way through the Trenerrys - doesn't help that they kept marrying people with the same surname. James and Ann are my 4th great aunt and uncle. John Trenerry (brother of Ann) married Agnes Benny and they are my direct line.
I think you're right about the 1861 census, just nothing after that and yes, the register appears intact. I'm not aware of the 1843 saga - please tell!

Heather

[Heather]

While I have you Mark - I was looking at William Trenerry (1769-1851) and Mary James (1774-1857), parents of Ann Trenerry and I keep getting hints from the family data collection but with Redruth as the city. They seemed to have lived in Newlyn East so is Redruth the correct registration district for them?

[Heather]

Further to my last point, I just looked through my correspondence with you and it appears that there are 2 William and Marys - one in Newlyn and one in Redruth and they are very easy to confuse, particularly on Ancestry. I think we had already established that the very poor Newlyn ones are ours!

[arghans]

In 1843 the parishes of Perranzabuloe and Newlyn East had a ding-dong arguing about which parish was responsible for the Trenerrys with regard to providing parish relief. Although living in Newlyn, the parish of Newlyn applied for them to be sent to Perranzabuloe (where of course James was from, even though Ann was a Newlyn girl). The order was made on the 15 March but Perran appealed against it and eventually Perran succeeded in reversing the order.
The records for the above are in the County Records Office in Truro by the way.

With regard to William and Mary, you have hit upon a source of debate between myself and most of the Trenerry trees online (most of which stem from one particular tree which is very good in the main - but in my opinion incorrect in this instance.

Like you, I found it hard to believe that a family from Redruth would keep popping over to Newlyn East to register children and then reappear in Redruth for a while....

I agree that William Trenerry married Mary James - and they are the parents of Ann, who married James. (Incidentally, do you have the info that William Trenerry - the father of the illegitimate James - married a Mary too? He married a Mary TAPER, just to throw more confusing names into the hat!)

ANyway, I have a number of reasons why I dispute the Redruth William and Mary as being the parents of Ann, Firstly, the parish relief saga - William in Redruth was a successful man - mine agent etc and well off. I cannot believe he would allow his daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren to be dragged through all that for the sake of a few pounds.
Also, if one looks at the births of the children and the various census records, you find William and Mary in Redruth are still in Redruth...not in Newlyn East.

My belief (backed by some research I add!) is that William Trenerry - father of Ann - was the son of Edward Trenerry and Ann Pengilly (who you will have in your Trenerry tree). That tree will be based on the incorrect (IMHO) view that James and Elizabeth (nee Nicholls) are WIlliam's parents.
I believe this error crept in many years back, as a result of the "same name" scenario where almost every person is called William or James.... and has simply been replicated through all the trees online regarding the family.
Logically, the Redruth family cannot be the same family as the Newlyn East lot - it makes no sense at all. However the two main trees I know of both have this same error.
Baptism of William took place 3 SEPT 1769 in Newlyn East (Source: Bishops Transcripts) with parents listed as Edward and Ann.

I suspect that record was not available online when the popular tree was drawn up - and at least one of the researchers involved doesn't live in the UK so would not have had access to the PRs etc. I assume that a baptism for a William Trenerry was found with the right year and - in the absence of any other William - he slotted in nicely. But incorrectly I think.
More than happy to hear your views Heather. I put this to the two researchers whose trees seem to be the basis of every Trenerry research I come across - one invited me to amend his tree in one place, but that would still leave many more incorrect trees around and the other didn't seem to grasp what I was saying and kindly sent me a copy of his gedcom again

[arghans]

Further to my last point, I just looked through my correspondence with you and it appears that there are 2 William and Marys - one in Newlyn and one in Redruth and they are very easy to confuse, particularly on Ancestry. I think we had already established that the very poor Newlyn ones are ours!

Yep - the poor ones are our lot! Typically

[Heather]

Hi Mark, yes I concur with your research regarding William and Mary, in fact the abundance of poorly researched Trenerry trees on Ancestry has prompted me to not even bother looking when they come up in my hints. The only time I put in dates that are unverified is when I want to throw out a wildcard and see what it produces otherwise I take them out until I have corroborating evidence. I agree that Edward and Ann Pengilley are the parents of William (who married Mary James) and produced Ann. Looking at her husband James, whose mother I believe was Elizabeth Roberts, his father William (who married Mary Taper) was born and died in Perranzabuloe (1780-1821). Haven't found any other children for Mary and William.
Heather

[arghans]

Yes. Elizabeth Roberts was James' mother - and William Trenerry the father named on the baptism register.
It is also supported by the fact that, during the calling of the marriage Banns for the upcoming marriage of William and Mary Taper, Elizabeth Roberts objected to the marriage! It still went ahead though I note.

I don't think it is poor research that caused the mix up with the family of Ann, rather the lack of available records at the time these trees were constructed. Our Trenerrys didn't make it easy for anyone with their annoying habit of using the same names over and over in each and every family, closely related or not!

There *are* children with parents named William and Mary, who may be the William,father of James, and Mary Taper, but it is not really easy to decide. The number of William and Marys knocking around the area makes unwravelling them a bit of a nightmare!

[CornwallPhil]

I took the liberty of having a quick stroll round the Perranzubuloe parish church graveyard whilst on a Sunday afternoon drive this afternoon. I found a headstone for William who died in 1908 and a later William who died in 1968. I have attached photos just in case they may be of interest/use. The inscription on William's headstone seems to go on to refer to two other people, one is Fanny, the other I can't make out as it becomes very hard to read.