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  1. #11
    Starting to feel at home
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    Hello Janet

    Thank you for your assistance with this search, as with my past enquiries. The death details of both John and Hannah are worthy of further follow up although they do conflict with others of similar names who appear in subsequent Census documents that I have loosely tied to "my" George. Yes, I tend to think that the "1825" marriage date may be a mis-transcription of 1815.

    Of particular interest to me now is to attempt to associate the transported Robert Lamb with John Lamb (also transported) and "my" George, who had these two listed as "brothers in Australia". I am searching for evidence that Robert was born to John and Hannah but my two current subscription sites are mute on this and I haven't yet found a reference in online Parish records.

    I am of the opinion that all three were members of the family of the John and Hannah whom I am seeking but as Robert had been transported prior to the 1841 Census, that line of investigation is not available. If Robert, transported at age 17 in 1830, is a part of this family then my thought that the John I am seeking was born in about 1897 is improbable, but not impossible.

    The positive identification of John and Hannah remains a mystery but other tantalising issues have been introduced during the course of discussion on this Forum - a valuable and stimulating resource.

    Again, my thanks ... John

  2. #12
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    I think you need to look at the parish registers for St Andrew Penrith to see what else can be gleaned from them. This may be more productive than purchasing certificates

    Digitalising on line records is an on going process and as such NOT all records are on line, it could be that the time frame we are looking at for the Church are only on line for say 1815 - 1830, I know that the LDS do not start at the beginning of a Church record and go through BMD to the end........they select records across various Churches in the chosen area.......I've been in Chester RO when they have been copying the records....

    Be wary when searching the records as I found this reference to a John LAMB bp 1791 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...enrith&f=false



    John LAMB states on the 1841 census he was not born in the county, you need to consider Westmorland maybe Scotland!

  3. #13
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    Hi geneius - thanks for your advice regarding digitised records and thanks for the link. The name Lamb also features as one of the 4th Fleet families, who, like the Naval Officer, have no direct link to my research.

    I will look further afield for the origin of "my" John and Hannah. I note the proliferation of the surname throughout norther England and Scotland.

    Best wishes ... John

  4. #14
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Some family titbits!

    12 October 1839 - Kendal Mercury - Kendal, Cumbria, England

    A chimney sweep belonging to Penrith, named John Lamb, has been committed to Appleby goal on a charge of having broken into the dwellinghouse of the Rev. ...”

    26 October 1839 - Carlisle Patriot - Carlisle, Cumbria, England
    Monday night last, Mr. Thomas Thwaites, governor of the gaol at Appleby, left that place for Woolwich, with Lamb, the chimney sweep, of Penrith, who was convicted last sessions for robbing the house of the Rev. Dr. Robinson, of Chiton, and sentenced to ...”
    (10 years transportation no forename given )


    20 July 1844 - Carlisle Journal - Carlisle, Cumbria, England

    At Penrith, on the 13th instant, on the body of John Lamb, chimney-sweeper, aged 74 years, who died very suddenly, and whose death was rumoured to have been hastened destitution. The deceased had not been able ...”

    Worth a read as character given and a reference to Mary SOWERBY

    07 April 1855 - Westmorland Gazette - Kendal, Cumbria, England
    Campers. Michael lago and George Lamb were brought up in custody, charged with ...”

    Ties in with 1851 census

  5. #15
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    13 March 1830 - Westmorland Gazette - Kendal, Cumbria, England
    CUMBERLAND LENT ASSIZES.

    “... CROWN BAR. HOUSE BREAKING PENRITH. Robert Lamb, aged 15, —Joseph Furnace, aged 13, —and Charles Linton, aged 19, were indicted for having feloniously stolen and carried away from the dwelling house of George Stuart, of Penrith, five sheets, two shirts ...”

  6. #16
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    Again, thanks, geneius - I have enjoyed browsing these clippings. The report in the Carlisle journal is really enlightening. I have noticed that a Mary Sowerby and a Robert Lamb had a son named Robert in 1812. This doesn't quite co-incide with young Robert, who, at age 15 in 1830, was transported but ages can be a bit flexible in older records. I have also noticed that a Hannah Lamb, wife of John, died in 1826. I wonder if Mary Sowerby's 16 year "infatuation" with John started soon after this (if, indeed I have the correct John and Hannah). emerging
    Really enjoying the chase - great stories - still not sure that they relate directly to "my" George but such a wealth of information is emerging. Time to sit down and carefully collate. Much appreciated ... John

  7. #17

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    Find My Past has a transcribed record of the marriage of John Lamb and Hannah Jackson at Muncaster. It doesn't give day/month, only year. ie. 1815
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  8. #18

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    The printed baptismal register introduced in 1812 included a column for "Quality, Trade or Profession".

    Transcriptions of these records by FMP does not include this item of information, even where the original image is also available (not sure of the practice on other sites). I think a check of the occupation of John, father of the Robert, born Kirkby Stephen, 1813 Westmorland and John, the father of George, John and William, born Penrith, Cumberland might be required?

    Glad you enjoyed the newspaper reports. His Lordship in sentencing young Robert in 1830 certainly didn't mince his words!
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  9. #19
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    Hello helachau - I think your information regarding Robert, John, George and William, corroborated and abetted by other wonderful people within this discussion, has confirmed that Robert and John were the brothers that my 3 x great grandfather joined in Australia. I think that brother John had turned his life around and owned the property at Minore, near Dubbo, NSW where George lost his life in 1868 following his fall from a horse "in an intoxicated state".

    I note that George had a bit of a scrape with the law, also, in 1855, but came to Australia as an unassisted migrant - thanks, possibly, to John's assistance.

    The tragedy of the demise of the boys' father, John Lamb, is heart wrenching and it seems that these Lambs all had it pretty tough. I am taken by the lyricism of the final paragraph in his death report which describes "the fidelity only to be found in a woman's love ... until death released her from her charge".

    I feel that the John Lamb of my quest was this man and that he was most likely born in Westmorland about 1770 - there are a couple of options I will attempt to follow up.

    Not sure about the surname Jackson in connection with Hannah but I do feel that the John Lamb and Hannah who married in 1815 are the parents of the above boys. Perhaps Mary Sowerby and John Lamb connected following the death of Hannah in 1828.

    I wonder if the Mary Sowerby who bore a child to Robert Lamb in 1809 is the same Mary? If so, what happened to Robert?

    I have learned so much during the past 48 hours or so and am truly grateful to you, and everyone, who has offered kind assistance.

    I have still not positively identified the roots of John and Hannah but the options have narrowed and so many more interesting facts have emerged.

    Very best wishes ... John

  10. #20
    janbooth
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    The Robert LAMB who was a Chimney Sweep & Farmers Boy transported for life aboard the "York" gives his native place as Westmorland in his NSW Convict Indent (available to view on Ancestry). There is a baptism at Kirkby Stephen, Westmorland on 28 November 1813 for a Robert LAMB as helechau found, so far so good, but then we get a conflict in the transcriptions. Ancestry's England & Wales Christening Index shows his parents as Thomas & Hannah, whereas their Select Birth & Christenings show his parents to be John & Hannah.

    I do think the only way you are going to solve the queries you have, is to do as both Jean and helechau have suggested and look at the parish registers of both Kirby Stephen and St Andrew Penrith as there do seem to be anomalies in the transcriptions of the records that interest you.

    Janet

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