George Player Born 1804/1805! Frampton,

[matchstix]

Hi from South Africa (Port Elizabeth)

Please could someone trace details of my gt x 3 Grandfather George Player born abt 1805 born at Frampton, Gloucestershire as I do not have access for any Marriage Certs/Death Certs due to exchange rate and retired. Would appreciate tks. I have loads of info on him but would love to be able to get a Birth Certificate and a Death Certificate. I know he died in Winterbourne, Gloucestershire but cannot find any details on death. Have looked on Winterbourne Family History site but nothing at St Michaels. He lived with his wife Ann (nee Lovell) at Prospect House, Winterbourne just before he died and his wife who was blind. Cannot find any info on Prospect House either. Let me know if more info needed that I may have. His middle name could be Wigmore but not sure as confused with what I found originally on George and George Wigmore Player? There ae all kinds of Framptons (eg Frampton Cotterell etc) but it was just Frampton and his wife was born in Wickwar.

[Allan F Sparrow]

You will not be able to obtain a birth certificate for a man born in 1805, as official registration of births, deaths and marriages did not begin in England until the middle of 1837. So if he married before then, there will be no certificate for that, either. The best that anyone may be able to find will probably be entries in parish registers. Do you have a possible date for his death? If after mid-1837, there should be a registration to be found.

[Allan F Sparrow]

Here's what I found on a quick search:

George Player married Anne Lovell in Winterbourne, Gloucs., on 26th December 1824 [source: England Marriages 1538-1973]

1841 census: at Winterbourne, Clifton; all born Gloucestershire
George 39
Ann 41
Mary Ann 17
John 15
Sarah 13
George 10
Robert 7
Benjamin 4
Mary 1

1851 census: at Winterbourne Down, Winterbourne, Clifton
George Player 46, agricultural labourer, born Winterbourne, Gloucs., as were all the rest
Ann 50
Robert 16
Benjamin 13
Mary 10

1861 census: same address
George 57 born Frampton Cotterell, Gloucs.
Ann 60, born Wickwar, Gloucs.
Mary 21 born Winterbourne, Gloucs.
Eliza (granddaughter) aged 2 born Winterbourne, Gloucs.

1871 census: Westons, Winterbourne, Clifton
George 67, aglab, born Frampton Cotterell
Ann 71, born Wickwar, Gloucs.; blind
Mary 31 born Winterbourne, Gloucs.
Eliza (granddaughter) 12 born Winterbourne, Gloucs.

I did not see a census for 1881, but perhaps someone else will. At any rate, I've got the enquiry started.

George Wigmore Player died in 1885 1st qtr, registered at Barton Regis, Gloucs. He was 80.

[Allan F Sparrow]

I found the 1881 census at another site:
The address may be Prospect House, Winterbourne, but those words are not written next to this household, but next to the household above, a different family.
George76, born Frampton
Ann 80, born Wickwar, blind
Mary 41, born Winterbourne

Also George Wigmore Player was baptised at Frampton Cotterell on 28th August 1804, son of John and Mary Player. This record was from an index: I did not see the original.

Off to other things, now...

[Pam Downes]

As usual, I was beaten to it by a quicker typist. (And no, I haven't copied. )

Firstly, there will be no birth certificate because civil registration (and the issue of BMD certificates) didn't begin in England until 1st July 1837.

Census records:
1851
Winterbourne census ref HO107/1955 folio 498 page 18
George Player, 46, ag labr
Ann, wife, 50
Robert, 16, ag labr
Benjn (presumably Benjamin), 13, scholar
Mary, 10, scholar
All born Winterbourne. Presumably Robert, Benj(ami)n and Mary are the children of George and Ann, but it doesn't specify.

1861
Winterbourne RG9/1742 folio 79 page 9
George Player, 57, ag lab, Frampton Cotterell
Ann, wife, 61, Wickwar
Mary, daur, 21, Winterbourne
Eliza, grand daur, 2, Winterbourne

1871
WinterbourneRG10/2574 folio 59 page 14
George Player, 67, ag lab, Frampton Cotterell
Ann, wife, 71, Wickwar (Ann noted as blind)
Mary, daur, 31, laundress, Winterbourne
Eliza, grand daur, 12, scholar, Winterbourne

1881
Winterbourne RG11/2508 folio 36 page 10
I don't read the image as George definitely living in Prospect House. The Player family are living in a different household (schedule 55, Prospect House schedule is 54.) It's possible that the property was split into two, but equally possible it wasn't.
George Player, 76, formerly labourer, Frampton
Ann, wife, 80, Wickwar (Ann noted as blind)
Mary, daur, 41, laundress, Winterbourne

The Winterbourne Family History site does have information on St Michaels - you need click the 'archives' tab in the top banner.
There's baptisms for at least five children for George and Ann, though sadly you'll have to check the burials as two of them seem to have died young.

George Wigmore Player buried St Michaels Winterbourne, 8 Mar 1885, aged 80
Ann Wigmore Player buried St Michaels Winterbourne, 22 Mar 1885, aged 84
Mary Player buried St Michaels Winterbourne, 25 Apr 1886, aged 45.

Logic, and stuff such as age at death and place of burial, says that these must be your Players, regardless of the inclusion of Wigmore. I suspect that was a family surname (possibly George's mother's) in an earlier generation.
If you want a copy of the death certificate I'm afraid that you will have to bite the bullet and pay. If you (or someone you know) have a credit/debit card then you can order online.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
You order it quoting the name as George Wigmore Player.
Registration district Barton R.
Year 1885 and I think you put the number 1 in the quarter box (March is the first quarter of the year)
Volume number 6a
Page number 145

Though the Wigmore bit does appear to be correct as FamilySearch has a baptism for a George Wigmore Player, 28 August 1804 in Frampton Cotterell; parents John and Mary.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) have a Family History Centre in Port Elizabeth and for a fee they should be able to order in for you the necessary parish registers. George's baptism is on film number 1597078.
His marriage to Ann Lovell in Winterbourne in 1824 is on film number 1565464. The film has Marriages, 1795-1986 Burials, 1813-1960 Baptisms, burials (parish copy) 1799-1812 Typescript of baptisms, marriages, burials, 1644-1812 Marriage banns, 1756-1904 so there's a lot for you to check.

Pam

[Allan F Sparrow]

Pam, I wouldn't dream of accusing you of copying! And though most of the information is the same as I had posted, you added some extra information, not to mention advice and guidance.

[janbooth]

Some information for you on the LOVELL side of your family - source Ancestry's Gloucestershire parish registers:

15 September 1801 at Wickwar Ann daughter of William & Rachael LOVELL baptised

Siblings:

Robert baptised 24 February 1793
Mary Ann baptised 12 July 1795
Joseph baptised 10 June 1798
William baptised 11 June 1804
Rachel baptised 25 December 1808

Burial on 13 March 1806 at Wickwar of a Rachell LOVELL.

Janet

[janbooth]

It looks as if William LOVELL remarried and perhaps first wife Rachel died either in or shortly after the birth of daughter Rachel above as there is another baptism at Wickwar on 25 December 1808 (same day as baptism of Rachel above) of an Esther LOVELL daughter of William & Sarah LOVELL.

21 June 1792 at Wickwar William LOVELL & Rachel SHORT both of the parish by banns. Both signed & the witnesses were Elizabeth DENNING, who made her mark, & Benjn MILLARD, who signed - source Ancestry's Gloucestershire parish registers.

Possible second marriage for William LOVELL at Bristol St James on 26 September 1808 to a Sarah EVERY.

Burial at Wickwar on 12 April 1829 of William LOVELL of Wickwar, aged 63 and one on 5 September 1852 for a Sarah LOVELL, Wickwar, aged 61.

Janet