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  1. #1
    lynnelay
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    Default Susanna(h) Carter

    I posted about this family in 2009 and thanks for your help. I now need to go further back.
    I will copy a post I have put on a Liverpool site, because of the later children. I now need to investigate Susannah Carter.
    Susannah Carter, b c 1818, in or close around Birmingham, is my Great x 2 grandmother. She married my great x 2 grandfather , Samuel Harvey, in 1836 at St Peter's Harborne, Nr Birmingham. He was a comb maker? A witness at this marriage was an Elizabeth Carter, perhaps mother or sister/ sister in law. They then lived in Sun St Birmingham and Kings Norton before moving to Liverpool. 1841 and 1851 census. They moved to Liverpool between 1851 and 1854 when my great g. mother (Eliza Agnes) was born. I have all the children, some baptised at St Philip's Birmingham (7) and born Liverpool (3). I connected the families by getting a birth certificate for Samuel Cade Harvey b Birmingham,Dec 1843 and my G Grandmother Eliza b Liverpool Jan. 1854. They matched as the same parents .
    Children most of whom were known by their second names.
    born Birmingham
    Louisa Betsy 1838
    James Thomas 1840
    Ann Maria 1842
    Samuel Cade 1843
    Emily 1845
    Catherine Alice 1847
    Julia Clara 1849

    Born Liverpool
    Eliza Agnes 1854
    (Sarah) Emily 1856
    Margaret Ann 1859
    Her first Husband Samuel Harvey died 1858 and she remarried 1866. She is on 1861 census at 102 tarlton St Everton.
    A few areas of help please
    1) Samuel Cade vanishes after 1851 census in Kings Norton. I can't find a death marriage or any thing. As I have his birth certificate I would like to trace him and where did "Cade" come from??
    2) Baptisms of those born in Liverpool.
    3) Any thing about Susannah b c 1818 before her marriage. I have her father as Samuel from her 2nd marriage to Abraham Webster July 1866 at St Peter's Everton. BUT could she have not known or forgotten her father's name and used her late husband or father in law's in stead?? I cannot find her birth or any siblings.
    The children were normally known by their second given name, so that might be the same with Susannah???
    Thanks Lynne

  2. #2
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Ancestry has various baptism, marriage and burial records for Birmingham.

    Between say 1810-1825 there were 2 men named Samuel Carter who were burying children at Birmingham St. Mary. One was married to Elizabeth and the other to Ann.

    I haven't spotted a baptism that would match your Susannah, but, there was no rule that children had to be baptised, and this is why you will sometimes spot adults being baptised, or siblings being baptised together.

  3. #3
    lynnelay
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    Thanks. I was hoping that that was not the case, otherwise it is a dead end. Perhaps something will turn up.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    There is a Samuel Harvey living with his brother-in-law Charles Broughton in the 1861 census. RG9 piece 2134 folio 118 page 16
    Charles wife is named as Emma and there is a marriage record on FreeBMD with these two names on the same page.

    Marriage Sept 1/4 1855
    Charles Broughton
    Emma Harvey
    Birmingham
    vol 6d page 140

    I note that Samuel had a sister Emily born 1845 which would fit the Emma in 1861 age 25. A possibility or have you already investigated this man?

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
    A fountain of knowledge
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Marriage Sept 1/4 1855

    I note that Samuel had a sister Emily born 1845 which would fit the Emma in 1861 age 25.
    But that would mean she was only 10!! (TEN) when she married.

    Or have I missed something?
    Last edited by macwil; 04-02-2016 at 8:59 PM. Reason: additional comment

  6. #6
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macwil View Post
    But that would mean she was only 10!! (TEN) when she married.

    Or have I missed something?
    No I have!
    Back in to my corner.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  7. #7

    Default

    I have her father as Samuel from her 2nd marriage to Abraham Webster July 1866 at St Peter's Everton.
    What, if any occupation was listed for her father?

    ETA: just seen the marriage cert, he was a smallware dealer.
    Alma

  8. #8
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    1) Samuel Cade vanishes after 1851 census in Kings Norton. I can't find a death marriage or any thing. As I have his birth certificate I would like to trace him and where did "Cade" come from??
    2) Baptisms of those born in Liverpool.
    3) Any thing about Susannah b c 1818 before her marriage. I have her father as Samuel from her 2nd marriage to Abraham Webster July 1866 at St Peter's Everton.
    Not a very productive evening tonight!1) A possibility ( familysearch.org) but I cannot full info on line or at lancsopc.org.uk


    Name Samuel Harvey
    Spouse's Name Elizabeth Jeffs
    Event Date 04 Nov 1862
    Event Place Liverpool Parish, Lancashire, England
    Father's Name Samuel Harvey
    Spouse's Father's Name William Jeffs
    Marital Status Single
    Spouse's Marital Status Single

    2) Searched both CoE & Catholic baptisms in Liverpool for the e girls, not finding anything....

    3) I can find nothing positive however in 1841 the family are at HO107; Piece: 1147; Book: 7; Civil Parish: St Thomas; County: Warwickshire; Enumeration District: 21; Folio: 52; Page: 8; Line: 7;
    Its a 13 page census so would suggest you search to see if her family are living close by

    I noted that Samuel Harvey was into 'weighing machines' so I googled found this tree, the compiler appears to be a descendent of Julia Clara https://www.chris-ward.pwp.blueyonder...logy/index.htm

    I ignored the flash notice that came up!

  9. #9
    janbooth
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    As Megan has said in post 2, there are a couple of Samuel CARTER's having children around Birmingham at about the time when Susannah was supposedly born. Given that she married Samuel HARVEY at St Peter, Harborne, in 1836, you might like to consider the marriages below:

    Banns called at St Peter Harborne on 17, 24 & 31 January 1808 and the marriage took place on 1 February 1808 at St Peter Harborne between Samuel CARTER & Ann HALLDEN, both being of the parish and single. They both marked and the witnesses were a John HALLDEN & Mary MORGAN who also both made their mark.

    Banns called at St Peter Harborne on 17, 24 & 31 October 1819 between Samuel CARTER & Elizabeth MOORE & the marriage took place at St Peter Harborne on 12 March 1820, both being single and of the parish. Samuel signed & Elizabeth made her mark. Witnesses were Abigail WHITEHORSE who marked & John TALLIS who signed. However, this marriage is probably too late for your Samuel CARTER.

    However, like everybody else I cannot find a baptism for Susannah CARTER c1818, I'm afraid, although Samuel & Ann seem to have had several children baptised in Birmingham, the first being a Frederick on 16 January 1809 at St Philip, followed by a James in 1813, then a gap until an Ann in 1820 followed by at least a couple more.

    If you can access Ancestry, it might prove profitable to search through their Birmingham parish registers to build up a picture of the family of Samuel (firstly a Labourer then a Grinder & Polisher) & Ann and that of Samuel (a Gun Maker) & Elizabeth although neither occupation is that of a Smallware Dealer but of course occupations can change. A Samuel CARTER married an Elizabeth HOPKINS at Birmingham St Martin on 23 April 1811.

    Janet

  10. #10
    lynnelay
    Guest

    Cool

    Thanks to all. I am e mailing Chris Ward re web site as that is the correct family, but he has not got their move to Liverpool. I do have Anc. and have found the death of Samuel and Ann Carter at St Mary's in 1834 and 1829 respectively. No occupation given. As you say the only likely one is with a father Benjamin and mother Elizabeth. I can't find his death to check if there is a occupation nor can I find him on 1841 census. Thank goodness for 2nd marriages as that gave me her father as Samuel a small ware dealer.
    My Samuel died soon after they moved to Liverpool (March 1858) and is buried in Toxteth Park Cemetery.

    I wonder if that Samuel Marriage is my Samuel Cade Harvey, but if it was were was he in 1861??
    Thanks again and if you find more I would love to hear it. I will let you know if Chris Ward replies.

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