James Richards and Janie Richards Illogan

[genie12]

I am looking for information about James and Janie Richards who are the children of William John and Elizabeth Richards nee Hill.
1911 is the last time that I find them when they are living with their parents at Tolskithy lane Redruth.
James was born abt 1894 and Janie 1896. Both children wre born at Tolskithy,Redruth.
FMP electoral rolls in 1922 and 1923 have William John and his wife Elizabeth living at Tolskithy Lane but no children with them.
James and Julia had 2 brothers who emigrated- William John to South Africa and Richard H to the USA. Information about them are also on this site.
I need help to see if brother and sister emigrated or stayed in Cornwall.

[Pam Downes]

Hi genie12,

Can you re-read your post, please, as you seem to be cross-purposes with yourself, and it's therefore difficult to help.
The post is headed 'Illogan', but then you say

James was born abt 1894 and Janie 1896. Both children were born at Tolskithy,Redruth.

I've found what I presume is the family in 1901, living in Phillack. RG13/2245 folio 16 page 23
William J Richards, 45, dock porter
Elizabeth, wife, 46,
William J, 14, farm labourer
Richard H, 12,
James, 7
Janie, 5
Everyone born Illogan.

Um. After several very frustrating searches I think I've found your James and Janie 'born Tolskithy' in the 1911 census.
The only snag is that their parents are John, 55, born St Kevern, Helston and Elizabeth, 45, born Carharrack. Elder brother Richard, 21, born Illogan Highway, Redruth. Living in Tolskithy Lane, Illogan Highway, near Redruth. Census ref RG14 PN13996 SN257

And I've found a John and Elizabeth living in Tolskithy Lane, Redruth, in the 1922 electoral roll. (Can't find either William or John in 1923.)

So are 'William J' (1901 census) and John (1911) the same person?

In the 1891 census I've found
John Richards, 29, railway labourer, Redruth
Elizabeth, 30, Gwennap.
William John, 5, Illogan
Richard H, 2, Illogan
Census ref: RG12/1849 folio 83 page 12, living in Illogan.

Pam who's very

[genie12]

Hi genie12,

Can you re-read your post, please, as you seem to be cross-purposes with yourself, and it's therefore difficult to help.
The post is headed 'Illogan', but then you say

I've found what I presume is the family in 1901, living in Phillack. RG13/2245 folio 16 page 23
William J Richards, 45, dock porter
Elizabeth, wife, 46,
William J, 14, farm labourer
Richard H, 12,
James, 7
Janie, 5
Everyone born Illogan.

I am sorry to see that you think that I am at cross purposes.
Census's:
1861 has William John Born St. Keverne with his parents John and Eliza also born St.Keverne at Mawgan Cross, Mawgan in Meneage, Helston, Cornwall, England RG09/1572 Folio 123 page 6.
1871 the family are living at Blowing House Redruth. RG10/2317 Folio: 58 Page: 1 Schedule: 3 . William John is John now.
1881 has the family living at Illogan Highway RG11/2333 Folio: 83 Page: 20 Schedule: 105. William John is still known as John.
By 1891 John has married Elizabeth Hill and is living at Tolskithey Bottoms, Illogan, Redruth, Cornwall, England with William John born 1887 Illogan, who emigrated to USA in 1913 (not to South Africa as I said in my post) and Richards H born 1889 Illogan,who also emigrated to USA in 1920.
1901 and 1911 are correct.
The only children not accounted for are James Richards born 1894 at Illogan and Janie born 1896 at Illogan after 1911.

[genie12]

I should have added that the address where Janie and James were living was Tolskithy, Illogan Highway, Redruth, Cornwall.

[Pam Downes]

Thanks for confirming that in spite of the differences in names, birthplaces, and ages that the people I found were your family.

Thoughts - James would have been old enough to have fought in the war. Have you checked the Commonwealth Wealth Graves Commission site to see if he was killed in action. cwgc.org
FMP have free access to most records this weekend, have you checked for any military or migration records?

Did William junior and Richard emigrate to the same area of the US? Have you checked for James in the US census - in a location near to either of his brothers?

Re Janie, her birth seems to have been registered June quarter 1897 in Redruth registration district.
There's a marriage in the same district for a Janie Richards in September quarter 1915 to a Joshua H Ingram. The couple had three children between March quarter 1916 and 1924, all born Redruth registration district.
Can't find any further clues in Cornwall OnlineParish Clerks or FamilySearch so the only way to confirm if this is your Janie would be to send for the marriage certificate.
There's a death registration for a Janie Ingram, June quarter 1991, Truro registration district. Her date of birth is given as 17 April 1897, which would appear to 'fit' your Janie.

There's also a Janie Richards, death registration in Redruth registration district March quarter 1962. Age at death 65.
I haven't checked for burial records for either of these two deaths.

Difficult to trace people with a common surname.

Pam

[genie12]

Thanks for those ideas.
I have checked the cwgc.org for James but he isn't there but believe it or not there was a James Richards that died and he was a step-son from another tree of mine. His mother married my great by how many times grandfather. His 1st wife died and he remarried very late in life the 2nd time.
I have a subscription with FMP but have had no luck in finding these people and I have looked at their military or migration records as well as Ellis Island for James.
Being a clever-or so I thought-I put Joshua Ingram in the 1911 census but he doesn't appear in the area that I am interested in,but in 1911 there is a Howard Ingram living at Ventonleague Hayle, Phillack East, Cornwall, England but there is also a Janie Richards in 1911 living at Highlanes Hayle Cornwall, Phillack, Cornwall, England.
Whether this chap is the Joshua but known as Howard I have no idea.
An interesting point is that my Richards family were living in the Phillack area during the 1901 census.
I put the names of the Ingram children in the BMD and found that although born in the Redruth district they married in the Penzance district and I also looked at the 1939 register so see what appears and there is a Howard and Janie Ingram who are the right year of birth living in the West Penwith R.D., Cornwall, England . I shall wait until next month when it comes as part of my subscription to see what that throws up.
I cannot find a marriage between Janie Richards and Howard Ingram in the Penzance district only the marriage between Joshua and Janie in the Redruth District neither can I find a death for Joshua H Ingram anywhere.
It looks very much like it is the couple I am looking for so I think that I will send for the marriage certificate. I did that with another member of the Richards family and lucky for me it was the person I was looking for.
William John who was a brother to James was living at Grosse Point Farms Michigan in 1930 and Richard H the other brother was living at Detroit (Districts 0751-0879), Wayne, Michigan, in 1930. I haven't found a death for either of them but that is another story!

[genie12]

Re Janie, her birth seems to have been registered June quarter 1897 in Redruth registration district.
There's a marriage in the same district for a Janie Richards in September quarter 1915 to a Joshua H Ingram. The couple had three children between March quarter 1916 and 1924, all born Redruth registration district.
Can't find any further clues in Cornwall OnlineParish Clerks or FamilySearch so the only way to confirm if this is your Janie would be to send for the marriage certificate.
There's a death registration for a Janie Ingram, June quarter 1991, Truro registration district. Her date of birth is given as 17 April 1897, which would appear to 'fit' your Janie.

There's also a Janie Richards, death registration in Redruth registration district March quarter 1962. Age at death 65.
I haven't checked for burial records for either of these two deaths.

Difficult to trace people with a common surname.

Pam

The marriage certificate arrived today and it isn't the Janie Richards that I am looking for. She was the Phillack one and a different father.

[Pam Downes]

Oh genie12,
I am so sorry that the marriage certificate was for the wrong one Janie. I know it's a lottery at times, but I feel bad when I order a wrong certificate, and I feel doubly bad when people buy a wrong certificate after I've encouraged them to do so.

It'll be interesting to see if the date of birth of the Janie (with Howard) Ingram in the 1939 Register ties up with that 1991 death registration I found.

Have you checked out the details of the Janie on the marriage certificate? e.g. is her age accurate to within a year of birth registration, does her father's name and occupation tally with her father in census records? I've come a cropper believing that the father's name is correct - she was illegitimate and gave her grandfather's name.

Pam

[genie12]

No worries about the certificate. This is only the 2nd certificate that has been no use so not bad going over the years.
The two that appear on the certificate are the ones in post 6 that I mentioned. What gave me hope was the marriage took place in the Redruth district and not Penzance. This couple were married in the Redruth Register office.
I have been looking through the electoral registers on FMP and James and Janie's parents are living at Tolskithy Lane but no children.
Possible Electoral register Autum 1922-Tolskithy LaneWilliam John with Elizabeth. Spring 1923 Tolskithy Lane.- William John and Elizabeth. 1924 William John and Elizabeth and Elizabeth Ann. 1925 William John with wife Elizabeth and Elizabeth Ann. 1927 William John with his wife Elizabeth. 1928 William John with wife Elizabeth. 1929 William John with Elizabeth and James.
and 1930 same place. 1931 Elizabeth and James Richards. .
I wonder if his brother James and James's wife Elizabeth Ann lived with them for a while or whether they were neighbours.
1924 and 1925 no James but Elizabeth Ann. 1929 with his wife Elizabeth and James but Elizabeth Ann has disappeared
Elizabeth and James still at Tolskithy Lane 1931 there is Elizabeth and James at Tolskithy Lane.
I looked at deaths in Illogan -familysearch and there is a burial for an Elizabeth Ann Richards in NOV 1928 age 75 and her address was Tolskithy Lane,hence no Elizabeth Ann in 1929.
William John Richards died in June 1931 age 73 and his address was Tolskithy.
Still can't find William and Elizabeth's last two children. James and Janie.