"Missing" Probates

[DiggingGently]

I've been poking about the National Probate Calendar and I'm a little puzzled.

Specifically I've been looking at some men who died in the 1920s, 1930s era but I've not found corresponding probate entries within say 5 years of their deaths. I'm working on the assumption that a) probate would have been granted in the geographic area of their last residence b) they had sufficient wealth that probate was needed.

Any pointers?

[Wilkes_ml]

If you could give us their names and date of death we could help by looking to see if maybe they are either 1) mis-transcribed in the database, or b) have a name variation.

There is also the possibility that they passed on any wealth/freeholds etc on to a child prior to death.

p.s. What probate indexes have you been using and where?

Michelle

[Megan Roberts]

I'm working on the assumption that a) probate would have been granted in the geographic area of their last residence

This is not necessarily the case. One of my great great grandfathers died in the 1890s in Pembrokeshire, where he was a life long resident. Probate however, took place in London. I can't recall who or where this came from, but I seem to remember learning that this would have been because either there was a risk of dispute or because property was in more than one probate registry area. Sorry for being a bit vague...

Also there is another thread here which will tell you that during WW2 the Principal Probate Registry in London was moved to Llandudno, and many researchers with no connection to Wales are surprised to find their ancestor's probate being granted in Llandudno.

[jac65]

Hi

I would have thought that often Executors would have applied for probate at a Registry that was convenient to them which may not be anywhere near where the deceased lived.

Andy

[Pam Downes]

There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to where probate is granted.
From a randon page from the 1930 probate register:
Lived Skipton and Crosshills (both in Yorkshire) - probate London
Lived Keighley (also Yorks) - probate Wakefield
Lived Chislehurst (Kent) - probate Ipswich
Lived Plymouth - probate London
Lived Nottingham - probate Nottingham.

In the early 1980s my dad's will was probated in Ipwisch though there were offices much nearer to home.

Pam

[Lesley Robertson]

People who lived & died in Scotland, but who owned property of some sort south of the Border tend to have 2 lots of probate - one local to their residence for their scottish stuff, and a London one for the rest.
As Pam says, no rhyme or reason....

[Squaredancer]

Probate for one of my lot was granted over 20 years after he died...

[DiggingGently]

Ok, well here's an example:

Egbert Job Watson b 1878 Downham Market, Norfolk, moved to London, married Clara Elworthy 1905, then settled in Surrey.

Egbert's Death Index entry:
Name: WATSON, Egbert J
Registration district: Croydon
County: Surrey
Year of registration: 1951
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death:72
Volume no: 5G
Page no: 175

Clara's Death Index
Name: WATSON, Clara
Registration district: Croydon
County: Surrey
Year of registration: 1952
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death:79
Volume no: 5G
Page no: 106

Searching https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/ doesn't reveal anything conclusive.

[Megan Roberts]

There is a probate record for a Clara Watson dying in Croydon in August 1952, but her husband is listed as someone else:





There is one Clara Watson registered as dying in Croydon in 1952. Have you muddled them up?

The husband listed in the probate notice above died in 1957 in Croydon.


As an aside you only need to go through probate if there is something that cannot be done without it - I was my mother's executor, and she left everything to my father. Everything was in joint names; banking, house deeds & mortgage and they were all content to transfer everything into his sole name on the basis of a letter from myself together with her death certificate and will. BUT she had in her own name about £150 worth of British Gas shares, and they would not transfer them without a grant of probate, so almost 1 year after she died, I had to go through the process. Irrespective of the value of her estate there would be no death duties because it was all going to her spouse.

[DiggingGently]

It's quite possible now I review the information I have on Clara.

But I've been doing some digging on probate and learnt that since 1858, probate refers to the lawful dispersal of assets under a will v administration where a will hasn't been left. Broadly will refers to buildings and land, testament refers to personal possessions.

As pointed out earlier, if everything was in joint names, no probate was needed or if there was no estate worth bothering about.