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  1. #11

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    Christanel,
    Forgive me saying I was delighted to note your confusion - but it meant I was no longer alone!

    Did spot this 1858 newspaper reference
    "78TH, or SEAFORTH'S HIGHLANDERS, NOW 72D or ALBANY'S HIGHLANDERS
    Raised ... in 1778. In 1786 it was numbered 72d ... In 1823 it was styled the Duke of Albany's Highlanders, when it resumed the plaid and bonnet.
    The present 78th Highlanders ... was raised by letter of service, dated 7 March 1793"

    This has brought back fond memories of my old boss who was in Signals and used to recite, as a party piece,
    Ay for Horses,
    Beef or Mutton
    C Forth Highlanders
    ... and so on
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  2. #12

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    Morning Post, 3 Jan 1854 (and many other papers). Stations of the British Army

    In Corfu were battalions from:
    1st Foot, 31st Foot, 48th Foot, 57th Foot, 71st Foot plus the 1st West India, Ceylon Rifle Regt, St Helen Regt.
    There must have been a reasonably sized base(s). There's frequent mention of the Greek Insurrection...

    The 72nd were in Nova Scotia (depot in Limerick)
    The 78th were in Bengal, depot in Chatham.

    These lists seem to have been published each month. By Feb, the 72nd was still in Nova Scotia, the 78th was in Aden.
    25th Feb. New Brunswick & Poonah, respectively. Also 23rd March, 5 April, 30 Apr, 27 May, 5 Jul, 5 Aug, 2 Sept, 7 Oct, 26 Oct.
    It looks as though, whatever he was doing in Corfu, it wasn't with the 72nd or 78th. The papers frequently mention collecting men from one regiment to serve elsewhere with another (sounds like WW1), but it's very odd. If his wife went with, it can't have been one of these instant moves.

  3. #13
    chadwbe
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    Thanks, Lesley, those are the correct matches for the wedding with Grace Fraser and the 1861 census. I did get the original entry for the marriage from Scotland's People, and it only says "both from the parish of Ardesier" - so likely James Murray was also from there but I have been unable to uncover a DOB. I suppose he could be any age at marriage, so hard to even guess.
    Does the fact there was no rank listed means he was not yet enlisted?
    Although if he were not a sergeant in April 1853, it seems unlikely he would be one in 1854? This would require enlisting and then promotion, correct?

    As I mentioned, much of the details of his life and death are from family memoirs and letters I have been going through so of questionable validity. It seems reasonable that a regiment that came to be called the "Seaforth highlanders" would be referred to as such by a descendant incorrectly- thanks for the correction.

    I do know for a fact that my great-great-grandfather James Murray (the son) was born in Corfu in Nov 1854, and it is from his memoirs that the story of his father's have been found "floating in the bay at Corfu with his throat cut" comes. The story of scarlet fever comes from a letter written by James Murray Jr.'s wife, Elizabeth Kirtland. Either method of death seems to be possibly a non-combat death, which would explain not finding a good match in some lists.
    The story was that his new wife accompanied him to war "as was the custom for sergeants in those days." At any rate, the story was interesting enough to have been repeated through the generations. Unfortunately James Murray is such a common name that I am having difficulties confirming any details!
    Thanks again for interesting discussion.

  4. #14
    chadwbe
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    Assuming the Seaforth highlanders to be a mistake, how would one go about finding if there actually were a regiment in Corfu in 1854?
    - apologize, edited to thank Lesley for including that info above! very helpful.
    Question: Would a person from Ardesier have enlisted at Fort George necessarily, and would the battalion joined be most likely defined by hometown?

  5. #15

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    Re. the " ... regiment that came to be called the Seaforth Highlanders to be a mistake ..."

    Feb 1782
    "DEATH - Right Hon Kenneth Mackenzie, Earl of Seaforth, Colonel of the 78th Regt of Highlanders ...".

    The "authorities" may have allocated a new number, 72D, in 1786 but for those in the Regiment, and their successors (traditions die hard), it remained "Seaforth's" regiment?
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  6. #16

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    Regiments in Corfu 1854

    Cannot find the 72nd in Corfu in '54 but

    Apr 16 1854 - the depot of the 71st Highlanders at Chatham received orders on the 19th ult. to hold themselves in readiness for foreign service, and will join the headquarters of the 1st Battalion at Corfu

    Nov 19 1854 Reinforcements for the Army in the Crimea
    The 34th Regiment now at Corfu
    The 71st Highlander Light Infantry from Corfu

    Volunteers (140) from the 72nd depot in Ireland transferred to the 42d or 79th in 1854 - but cannot see the 42d or 79th in Corfu.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  7. #17

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    What went into entries in Church of Scotland registers was very much at the whim of the Minister or Parish Clerk. Most would list rank and regiment of a military groom if he was an in-comer, but as you say it sounds as though bride and groom were registered parishioners of the local Church. That doesn't mean that they were born in the parish (although there's a good possibility that they were), but that they'd registered as parishioners if/when they moved into the area.

    The variability can be extreme - some Ministers included marriages & baptisms in their local non-conformist churches (everything but the Church of Scotland), others didn't. I have a marriage record where only the name of the groom is given (the bride wasn't from that parish), and a baptism record where not only the child and parents were named, but also the grandfather (because the kid was being named for him) and all their occupations. Mind you, that last Minister then blotted his copybook by spelling the family surname 3 different ways in the single entry... Spelling was also a fuzzy business.

  8. #18

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    As I said in message 12, the 72nd were in Canada and the 78th in India over that period.

    There would have been admin staff and trainees at their depots, of course.

  9. #19
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Cheshire UK
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    Books google has this book cannot copy link for copyright reasons, that explains the raising of the regiments & mentions 72 Highlanders

    The Gordon Highlanders: A Concise History
    By Trevor Royle

  10. #20
    chadwbe
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    Here is a photo I was able to find from the Manchester Courier, Nov 11 1854, that mentions under "October 22 Wounded:" "James Murray, A B. London, severely."
    This would be close to the time frame for my James Murray, who was supposed to have died " a fortnight" before his son was born Nov 30 1854.
    Can anyone tell me if this gives me any additional information to work with - i.e., what does AB London mean? Was this the name of his ship?



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