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  1. #1
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    Default pilcher/cunningham marriage

    hi,my name is cathie

    i am trying to find the marriage record of my great grand parents ,catherine cunningham and stephen pilcher

    stephen pilcher born 1863 was in the royal navy from about 1877,he stared off as a first class boy sailor,in 1896 he became a coastguard, (probs due to marrying my g nan ) ,that was at knockadoon,co cork ireland

    he was born in queenstown cork in 1863,his father also stephen pilcher serv no- 5916 was born in 1836 in deal kent,he went into the royal navy as a volunteer in about 1853,he married in ireland a mary verling from queenstown cork in 1858,he became a coastguard in waterford in 1873,i have stephen pilcher snr s marrage info,and i have both their naval records ,but i can not find stephen jnr marrage record anywhere

    stephen pilcher jnr s first child was born in 1898 at knockadoon,so they must have married between 1896 and 1898,his wife catherine cunningham was born in ballymacoda between 1876 and 1878,there are 3 records of catherine cunningham births,but i dont know which one is hers because i dont know her parents names,i would hope if i had their marrage cert it would at least have her fathers name on it

    also i dont know which church they would have married in,knockadoon is only a couple of miles from ballymacoda,so i would have thought they married around there,if anyone can help or give me some new leads i would really appreciate it as i ve been going round in circles now for nearly a year....someone said to me ,maybe they were nt married,but my family were quite holy and are catholic and always went to church so i just cant imagine they would have been living under the brush

    thanks again.............cathie

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Cathie and welcome to British-Genealogy

    I have moved your post to the Ireland - County Cork forum as it is going to require research and the introduce yourself forum is just for saying "Hi,"

    I am sure that when everyone in your part of the world wakes up you will start getting some help.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  3. #3
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Stephen was their first born son, 1898/9 Cork? Is it this Stephen Pilcher who was killed in WW1 buried in France?

    I notice on the 1901 and 1911 census Catherine is down as Kate. Do you have one of the children's birth certificates giving her maiden name?

    On the 1911 they also say they have been married 13 years. They didn't move out of Ireland but they did move around - Cork - Waterford - Valentra Co Kerry. I suppose it could be easy enough to tell people you were married if you weren't living near them at the time you got together.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Just been looking at births 1879 +/- 2 years. for a Kate Cunningham born Ireland.
    There are 3. One in March 1/4 1878 at Kilmacthomas, Waterford
    Another Sept 1/4 1879 Tuam Galway
    and my favourite

    Kate Cunningham
    December 1/4 1880
    Registration district - Kilrush
    Vol - 4 Page - 320
    FHL Film Number - 101057
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
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    Default cunningham/pilcher marrage

    hi,cathie here

    my great nan was called catherine cunningham,i know this for fact,my mum and my nan have told me this often (unfortunately they are both no longer with us)

    i know she was born in ballymacoda cork as it says so on the 1901 census,i know all about their children as kathleen was my nam,william my great uncle and maud my great aunt,all of these lived into their 80 s and i knew them well,my nan was nearly 100 when she died

    my great nan did go by the name kate once "married", but she was definately christened catherine

    so there are 3 births for catherine cunninghams in ballymacoda one in 1876,1877,and 1878,one of these 3 is her,but because i dont know her parents names i will never know which one is her

    i do know that there were 2 brothers who both drowned together in her family,well there s a grave in the cemetery on the hill ballymacoda for a john and william cunningham who both drowned together in 1887 age 18 and 17,i would imagine that these are them,as it seems unlikely that there were 2 sets of brothers drowning in the same place with the same name and right timeframe

    the only problem is that i dont remember being told that they were her brothers,because they did have a sister called catherine born 1876,but this would make her 2 years older than on the 1901 census,though people have told me that often ages were out by a couple of years

    the boys and the catherine of this family s father was called martin cunningham

    i hope this makes more sense thanks...................cathie x

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    ps.............i do have my nan kathleen pilcher s birth certificate and her mums maiden name was cunningham,born in cork x

  7. #7
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathieee View Post
    ps.............i do have my nan kathleen pilcher s birth certificate and her mums maiden name was cunningham,born in cork x
    Hi
    what was your great grandmother's first name on the birth certificate of your Nan, Catherine or Kate?

    Ages on censuses can be out and so can people's birth places. Sometimes they give the name of a place that is the biggest town closest to where they were born.
    Another thing to watch out for is family stories that haven't been backed up by proof. If you don't have Catherine's birth certificate you don't actually know that she was registered as Catherine or Kate. You Mum and Nan may have been told by someone else who was just assuming that as she was known as Kate it must have been a shortened version of Catherine.

    Catherine/Kate was very young when she married and she may also have been younger than she said. People did adjust their ages according to their partner's age sometimes.

    I am still searching but not finding anything useful at the moment.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  8. #8
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    Default cunningham/pilcher marrage

    hi again

    my nan only died in 2002,she told me many times that her mum was called catherine cunningham,its written on the back of many old photo s and my mum who only died last year had always told me the same,she was very close to her nan and was the only grand daughter,she took her on many holidays ,my mum told me i was named after her

    i also know that she was brought up on a farm in cork,my mum told me that her siblings were all much older than her

    i know she spoke irish and english,my nan could speak and sing in irish too

    i know she was a trained midwife,i ve got her certificate for it and a photo which was in cork ,my mum said she was also a tailoress and could make beautiful suits without any pattern,but i dont know if this was just a natural talent she had

    all her daughters became nurses,thats when they all came over to england

    my mum told me that she hardly spoke about her family that she had fell out with them,(in my head i thought maybe it was because they did nt approve of her being with stephen pilcher as often royal navy coastguards were nt liked because they stopped smuggling etc,but this is just me speculating,also he was about 14 years older than her)

    i also know that she burned alot of documents in her fire at home when she moved to liverpool,she lived with her youngest son william when she died,and he put down that her name was kathleen,which was nt so,i think he thought kate was short for it,because my nan kathleen often got called kate

    my 2 uncles know less about her than i do,because boys just were nt interested in those sort of things,but my mum used to ask her questions all the time,and me in turn asked her and my nan

    on my nans birth cert it says mother kate pilcher,formerly cunningham

    either way about the 1901 census it says ballymacoda cork,which will mean she was born in cork,i dont see why they would have put down ballymacoda if she was nt born around there,also its very rural and she grew up on a farm,and as i have said,the 2 boys who both drowned together called john and william cunningham are buried there in the cemetery on the hill ,as i ve already said i knew about them before i started searching,it was by accident that i found them

    would it not be easier to look up marrages of stephen pilcher,because the names not irish,his father was from kent england and theres loads of pilchers there,i cant find 1 marrage for a stephen pilcher in ireland in that time frame 1890 to 1900,the only one i ve found for that time was 1896 in portsea hampshire england,i had thought that maybe they had eloped and gone there to get married but have been told that its not them by someone on line ??

    i honestly spend hours on hear every night looking also at the library,im driving my boyfriend mad ,i used to paint all the time but i hardly do any now due to this,i just hope you know that im not lazy and expecting others to do the work for me

    thanks again ......cathie

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi Cathie
    First of all I do not think you are lazy, no way, just frustrated that you can't find anything after hours and hours of searching.

    Don't forget the living are more important than the dead so give the boyfriend a bit of attention every now and again

    You say "I know she was a trained midwife, I've got her certificate for it and a photo which was in Cork."
    What is her name on the certificate and the name of the institution she trained at and what years? Better still just tell us all the info the certificate has on it including dates etc.

    As we are not certain of Catherine/Kate's birth registration name you are quite correct in saying that it is easier to search for a marriage for a Stephen Pilcher but allowances still have to be made with his name eg: Steven and or Piltcher. If allowed I use wildcards so I type variations on this Ste*en Pil*her which allows for spelling differences.

    I do think an open mind needs to be kept as to whether her birth was registered in the name of Catherine/ Kate or even Kathleen.

    By the way did she die in 1948 in Liverpool? Your tree on ancestry has her death as 1940 but I can't see one on FreeBMD for that year for a Catherine/Kathleen/Kate Pilcher only the one for a Kathleen Pilcher in 1948 Liverpool North age 66 so making a birth year of 1882. That is a couple of years out but is nothing in the scheme of things, The informant may not have known her true age or Kate herself may have knocked a few years off as she got older.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    Hi Cathie
    First of all I do not think you are lazy, no way, just frustrated that you can't find anything after hours and hours of searching.

    Don't forget the living are more important than the dead so give the boyfriend a bit of attention every now and again

    You say "I know she was a trained midwife, I've got her certificate for it and a photo which was in Cork."
    What is her name on the certificate and the name of the institution she trained at and what years? Better still just tell us all the info the certificate has on it including dates etc.

    As we are not certain of Catherine/Kate's birth registration name you are quite correct in saying that it is easier to search for a marriage for a Stephen Pilcher but allowances still have to be made with his name eg: Steven and or Piltcher. If allowed I use wildcards so I type variations on this Ste*en Pil*her which allows for spelling differences.

    I do think an open mind needs to be kept as to whether her birth was registered in the name of Catherine/ Kate or even Kathleen.

    By the way did she die in 1948 in Liverpool? Your tree on ancestry has her death as 1940 but I can't see one on FreeBMD for that year for a Catherine/Kathleen/Kate Pilcher only the one for a Kathleen Pilcher in 1948 Liverpool North age 66 so making a birth year of 1882. That is a couple of years out but is nothing in the scheme of things, The informant may not have known her true age or Kate herself may have knocked a few years off as she got older.

    Christina
    hi
    it s me again,i ve just been looking up the documents of my nan becoming a midwife and i m afraid on both of them ,one for midwifery the other for obstetrics she is down as kate pilcher ,they were from the lying in hospital cork 1919,this woulld have been the year after her husband died , once he had died they would have been homeless ,as with him being a coastguard the house went with the job ,so she probs had to support them now.
    saying that though i know the royal navy looked after them,her 2 youngest sons were sent to Greenwich naval college by them ,they may have had something to do with her daughters all coming to england and becoming nurses and kate becoming a mid wife
    also yes kate did die in 1948 in liverpool,that thing you saw i did was at the beginning and it was wrong,i know where she is buried but would you believe it when i got there ,there was no headstone ,i could have cried
    thanx again .........cathie x

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