Oliver Ormerod/Ann Rogan

[massormerod]

I'm researching Oliver Ormerod, born about 1820 in Lancashire. His parents were Thomas and Ann, according to his marriage certificate. In Nov 1841, he married Ann Rogan in Dukinfield, Cheshire. However, I have been unable to find him on the 1841 Census. Thomas, Hugh, Ann, John, Isabella, Esther and Oliver were his children's names. I haven't been able to link him to any specific branch of the Ormerod family. Oddly, his first three children spelled their name Ormrod. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[christanel]

Welcome to British-Genealogy
On Lancashire OPC there is this baptism but the date of birth is 2 years later. There is a baptism in 1820 but not correct parents.
Baptism - 22 Dec 1822 St Paul, Blackburn Lancashire
Oliver Ormerod - Son of Thos. Ormerod & Ann
Born: 6 Dec 1822
Abode - Blackburn
Source: LDS Film 1470928

Who are the witnesses on the marriage cert and Oliver and Ann's ages? It may be Oliver knocked a couple of years off his age if Ann was older or just that he didn't know when he was born exactly or if he is the one born 1822 he would have needed parental consent to marry so just upped his age a couple of years.
Spelling of names was not standardised until the early 1900's so there can be many variations of a name even in the same document. It pays to use a wildcard when searching eg: Orm*rod

It looks like this is your Oliver as he says born Blackburn in the 1851census but he has given his age as 27so born 1824! He is a little confused.

[geneius]

Ann ROGAN can be found in 1841 at Wood Street H107 532/9 maybe a search of the area may produce a mis transcribed Oliver!

Does the entry on the marriage certificate state Banns or Licence?

[Nicolina]

there is an Oliver ORMEROD living in Bury in 1841 (HO107, Piece 505, Folio 1) born about 1821. It's a confusing household:
Edmund AMERUD (sic) b. abt. 1781
Ann ORMEROD b. abt. 1781
Sally ORMEROD b. abt. 1786
Lawrence ORMEROD b. abt. 1816
James ORMEROD b. abt. 1821
Oliver ORMEROD b. abt. 1821
Jane ORMEROD b. abt. 1826
Ruth ORMEROD b. abt. 1826
Mary ORMEROD b. abt. 1837

all born Lancashire.
could some of the younger members be grandchildren?

alternatively, could Thomas have re-married?
living at Hole Bottom Lane, Mottram in Longden Dale (HO 107, Piece 101, Folio 12) there is:
Thomas ORMROD b. abt. 1801
Esther ORMROD b. abt. 1811
Oliver ORMROD b. abt. 1826
Thomas ORMROD b. abt. 1835
James ORMROD b. abt. 1838
Mary ORMROD b. abt. 1840

all born Cheshire. Esther appears young to be Oliver's mother and then there is a 9 year gap before the younger chidren were born
plus 4 additional females & 1 male.

to narrow down possibles, what was Thomas' occupation on the marriage certificate.

[massormerod]

How wonderful to hear from all of you so quickly! I agree, Oliver seems to have been a bit confused about his age. I've felt for some time that the Oliver born in Blackburn (1822) may well be 'mine'. As I have failed to find the family together in 1841, that's hard to prove. I have included Thomas and Esther as possible family in my records, as they were in the right area when Oliver married.

17 November 1841
Marriage solemnized in the Catholic Chapel in Dukenfield
Oliver Ormrod, a minor, bachelor, living at Newton Moor, Cheshire
Father Thomas Ormerod, cotton yarn dresser and
Ann Rogan, of full age, spinster, weaver, living on Cotton St.Ashton under Lyne, Cheshire
Father Hugh Rogan, stonemason
Catholic Priest George Fisher
Witnesses: William Davies
Sarah Sharp

Ann Rogan was born in Ireland @1820 (possibly Wicklow) and her mother's name was Isabella. Their children's names conform perfectly with the naming tradition of the time.

If Oliver's mother Ann was dead by 1841 and his father remarried, would her name be given in the church record? Several years ago someone found the parish record entry with Ann listed as mother.

Once again, many thanks to all who responded.

[christanel]

There is this burial
Burial: 24 Apr 1824 All Hallows, Mitton, Lancashire, England
Ann Ormerod -
Age 23
Abode Aighton
Buried by - Papist
Register: Burials 1813 - 1841, Page 46, Entry 372
Source: LDS Film 919152

There is a burial of an infant dau of Thomas buried in Feb the same year.

There is this marriage
Source - Original Register
Marriage - 26 Jan 1834 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ormrod, Dresser, Widower, this Parish
Esther Hartley, Spinster, this Parish (both made their mark)
Witnesses William Eccles, Thomas Parry
Married by Banns by R. Remington Chaplain
Register - Marriages 1834, Page 67, Entry 199
Source: LDS Film 2356729

All supposition of course but a birth certificate for one of the children would give themother's maiden name which would ether confirm or disprove my flights of fancy.

Births March 1/4 1838
James Ormerod Ashton & c vol 20 page 64

I note that the registration district of Ashton & c. includes parishes in both Lancashire and Cheshire from 1837 to 1848.

[helachau]

I'm researching Oliver Ormerod, born about 1820 in Lancashire. His parents were Thomas and Ann, according to his marriage certificate.

Marriage certs do not (normally) identify mother of groom. Rather, did your searches lead you to "Thomas and Ann", based on father's details on the cert?

[Nicolina]

just had a look at theactual 1841 image for Thomas & Esther (my Post #4) and Thomas' occupation is given as "Cotton Dresser" and Oliver is a "Cotton Weaver"

What's also interesting is that living right next door are:
Henry ORMROD, aged 40, occupation Cotton Dresser
Ellen ORMROD, aged 45
Alice ORMROD, aged 15, occupation Cotton Weaver
Thomas ORMROD, aged 15, occupation Cotton Weaver
Robert ORMROD, aged 15
Ann ORMROD, aged 14, occupation Cotton Weaver
Mary ORMROD, aged 12
Ellen ORMROD, aged 10
Margret ORMROD, aged 7

all born Cheshire

[massormerod]

Isn't this wonderful! We represent the States, Australia, Wales and England! My Morris family all come Radnorshire, so I'm very familiar with Welsh research. But, the Ormerod's....

When I first started researching Oliver, I found the entry for 22, Dec 1822 at St. Paul, Blackburn. From the IGI files, it looked as if Thomas and Ann had other children:
Nancy 12 Feb 1815
Ellen 15 Mar 1817
George 14 Feb 1825
George 30 Aug 1826
Thomas 26 Dec 1828
I then looked for a marriage, but couldn't zero in on the right couple. The names do come down in the family, though. My grandmother was Ellen.

So, the Ann that was buried looks to be too young. Also, isn't St Paul Church of England? Makes me wonder about the Catholic marriage with Ann Rogan. As she was Irish, I guess that would be the explanation. It was the actual church entry that gave Ann as Oliver's mother.

[Nicolina]

a look at the 1851 Census gives another couple of kids for Thomas & Esther, Elizabeth b. 1842 and John Henry b. 1845. They are still living at Hole (or Hall) Bottom Lane, Mottram in Longden Dale (HO107, Piece 2235, Folio 168) but places of birth are given as Newton, Cheshire, except for Esther and her's was Blackburn, Lancs.

Henry & family had moved to Queen's Street, Ashton under Lyne (H0107, Piece 2238, Folio 367) and were now listed as:
Henry b. abt. 1799 in Haddington, Yorkshire
Ellen b. abt. 1796 in Galgate, Lancashire
Ann b. abt. 1828 in Blackburn, Lancs
Mary b. abt. 1829 in Newton, Cheshire
Margaret b. abt. 1834 in Newton, Cheshire
John H. (grandson) b. abt. 1851 in Ashton under Lyne, Lancs.