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    Super Moderator Ladkyis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jparrettsmith View Post
    Hello Steve,

    I apologize for not responding sooner. I was on a bit of a summer hiatus from my David Mendes (z) research. I did read your email and thought it was a great summary of where we stand as a group on this topic! I do have some helpful information to report. I did have my dad's DNA tested and as he is about 76 years old I knew he would get better cousin matches than me. From the DNA matches I have got for him I feel confident to say that Abraham de David Mendes b1769 who married Rebecca Nunes Miranda and Hannah Mendes b 1785 who married Samuel Nathan are in fact brother and sister. They are descended from the same David Mendes ( who as you all will recall Bevis MArks told me was born in 1769 and parents were another David Mendes and Hannah de Saqui. I have not yet been able to establish any DNA link which supports John Jacob being their sibling. I do agree that there is potentially an error in the Anglo Jewish Database which suggests he has a different parent ( OR NOT?). The "evidence" to suggest John Jacob is a sibling of my Abraham and Hannah, is a marriage on the same day as Abraham ( see my tree on ancestry for copy of record) and the 1841 census which shows an old David Mendes ( the one whom I believe is the parent of Hannah and Abraham) living at the home of John Jacob. By 1841 David Mendes was in and out of the workhouse as he had fallen into financial and legal troubles and his family may have lost the desire to support him. It is also possible there are many many more descendAnts of this David Mendes as the court records said he had a multitude of children and at this point I can only confirm two (Abraham and Hannah) and maybe a third John Jacob.
    I agree that there is conflcting info in the ANglo Jewery database. I think it may be wrong but I dont know. Until Bevis MArks puts their records online it is going to be very difficult for ordinary people to resolve this.


    I encourage everyone out there who believes they may be a descendAnt on the Mendes line to get their DNA and trees up on Ancestry as it is proving a useful tool for resolving some tree mysteries.

    There is 2 potential death records for David Mendes born 1769. I guess I will be the one to splurge and by the certificate. I will let you know what I find out. It may yeild more information.

    Would love to help work out the connection of the Levy lady to Hannah Nathan ( I read some of the stuff on that case and it seemed very interesting. When I get some time I will dig back in to it. Steve, have you done your DNA test????

    Janet
    Hi Janet

    DNA links may well be the key to solving the mendes conundrum. I still haven't been able to find any links between Abraham, Jacob and Hannah.

    I think that what follows has probably already been covered, but each time I come back to the topic, I have to marshall my thoughts again, so summarising what I believe to be the situation will help me, if no one else!

    As you know, Abraham de David Mendes marriage to Rebecca de Joseph (Nunes) Miranda is recorded in Bevis Marks records on 13 November 1811. However, I haven't been able to find a record of him in the birth and circumcision registers, so his mother and siblings are unknown.

    I haven't been able to find a record of Hannah Mendes in the Bevis Marks birth registers. Census records suggest she would have been born about 1786. Her status as the daughter of David Mendes is given by the Great Synagogue record of her marriage to Samuel Nathan in 1808, with her father being recorded as David Mendez Sephardi. There were two subsequent Great Synagogue marriage records that might involve siblings of Hannah – Esther to Mark Marks, 23 December 1812 (father, David Mendes Sephardi) and Ann to Elias Levy, 7 September 1826 (father, David Mendes). The only birth record that I have come across that might relate to any of the three potential siblings is a Bevis Marks record of Esther born to David de Abraham Mendes and Sarah 19 December 1792. This may be the David de Abraham Mendes and Sarah de Jacob Simhon recorded in the Bevis marks Ketubot extracts on 14 November 1792. And this may be the David Mendes with an entry in the Bevis Marks birth and circumcision records 11 July 1769, born to Abraham and Hanah. And they may be the Abraham Mendes and Hana de Abraham Saqui recorded in Bevis Marks Ketubot extracts 10 December 1760. That's several maybes! But Hannah Nathan nee Mendes would have been born some time before the marriage of David de Abraham Mendes and Sarah de Jacob Simhon.

    As you say, Jacob and Abraham both had Bevis Marks marriage records dated 13 November 1811, which does strongly suggest a family tie. I understand that the association of Jacob with Abigail as his mother is to be removed from the 1851 Anglo-Jewry database, as the only Jacob, son of David Mendes, within the right time frame is recorded in Bevis Marks records as born early September 1786 to David and Rebecca (the elusive Rebecca – the entry is dated 8 September 1786). If Abraham and Jacob were not brothers, another possibility could be uncle and nephew – in my own family an uncle and his nephew married sisters, the uncle being at the younger end of his generation and the nephew being at the older end of his. Their fathers could then be uncle and nephew both named David Mendes – long shot, but stranger things have happened. There doesn't seem to be a marriage entry for David and Rebecca.

    I would love to know what in the DNA links has given you confidence that Abraham de David Mendes and Hannah Mendes were siblings. Were they definitely siblings and not just relations? I do have a DNA test on Ancestry, but Ancestry says that “this person [you] is either not a DNA match or has not yet taken a DNA test.”

    The saga continues...

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