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  1. #1
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    Default Elizabeth Smith - A gypsy?

    Hello from the USA. Gypsys in our family?? I am researching my husband's family. His grandfather Obadiah Bell (1886-1956) came from Lincolnshire to Detroit in 1904 at age 19 to work in the Ford Motor Company. He was a tool and dye maker. I think his mother was named Elizabeth Smith and that she was a Gypsy. Based on her birthdate and place of birth, 1856, Nettleham, I believe she is the daughter of Moses Smith and Eldria Gray, both of whom are listed in your threads. I came across a marriage certificate for this couple who listed their occupations as"Gypsy". I noted an Elizabeth of the correct age (16) in the 1871 Castle Dykings census where she was listed as Moses Smith's daughter. I could not find her in earlier census. And by the next census, it appears that she was married and living with Obadiah Bell, Sr., my husband 's great grandfather (1844-1907) in Newark, Nottingham.

    Does anyone have any information about this Elizabeth Smith? Was she from a Gypsy family? Could Obadiah Bell, Sr. been a Gypsy as well? My husband's family never shared anything about their English roots and I'd like our children and grandchildren to know and be proud of their heritage. I don't know if it helps, but I believe that Obadiah Sr.'s father, Charles Bell and his wife Elizabeth were innkeepers at The White Hart Inn in Metheringham in 1861. Thanks for any help you can give me.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    This looks like the family in 1861. I think Elizabeth is down as Elisha age 5 I willleave it to you to look at the image and record all their birth places and relationships. Occupations same as 1871

    1861 RG 9 Piece 2357 Folio 60 Page 14
    Reepham, Lincolnshire
    Moses Smith 44 Harby leicestershire
    Eldred Smith 40 wife
    Thomas Smith 21 son
    Sophia Smith 20 dau
    Emma Smith 15 dau
    John Smith 11 son
    Sarah Smith 10 dau
    Robbi Smith 4 son
    Walter Smith 3 months son
    Thomas Smith 50 brother
    Charlott Smith 37 sister in law
    Joshua Gray 31 brother in law
    Harriet Brown 24 visitor
    William Smith 7 visitor
    Elisha Smith 5 visitor
    Elizabeth Mobbs 63 mother in law
    Harriet Smith 24 visitor
    Sophia Smith 16 niece
    Lettitia Mobbs 16 Niece

    Oh and welcome to Brit-Gen

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  3. #3
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    Thanks for rapid reply, Christina. The age of 5 would be right for Elisha. Wonder why she is listed as a visitor way down the list from the rest of the children? Maybe Elizabeth Mobbs who I think might be Eldria Gray Smith's mother was raising her? If Elizabeth Smith married a non-Gypsy, would her family have been likely to distance themselves from her? Donna B

  4. #4
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1841 HO 107 piece 588 book 23 folio 18 page 31
    Wymondham Leicestershire
    Sylvia Smith 65 Born in County No
    Moses Smith 20 Yes
    Violet Smith 20 Yes
    Thomas Smith 20 No
    Silvia Smith 13 Yes
    Meclare Smith 12 No
    Hasy Smith 15 Yes
    Thomas Smith 11 months NO
    Elden? Gray 15 No
    James Mobs 45 Yes
    Betty Mobs 25 Yes
    Selina Mobs 4 No
    Francis son 2 No
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #5
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Marriages Sept 1/4 1874
    Obadiah Bell
    Elizabeth Smith
    Newark vol 7b page 541

    Have you noticed in the 1891 census that Obadiah and Elizabeth are living 2 doors away from a George and Ann Smith and their children? George is a shopkeeper and Ann and children born Newark. RG12 Piece 2713 Folio 116 Page 18

    Buying the marriage cert for Obadiah and Elizabeth would give her father's name and occupation then you would know you are definitely following the correct family.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  6. #6
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Elizabeth Smith was Obadiah's second wife as I thought because Charles was too old to be Elizabeth's son.
    1871 RG10 Piece 3368 Folio 43 Page 19
    Metheringham
    Obediah Bell 26 ag lab Metheringham Lincolnshire
    Sarah Bell 26 Harmston
    Charles W Bell 1 Metheringham

    This could be Sarah's death
    Deaths March 1/4 1873
    Bell Sarah age 29
    Lincoln vol 7a page 332

    As an aside
    Elizabeth Obadiah jnr is with his mother Elizabeth in 1901 and she says she is Head and married but her husband isn't with them.
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the additional information. I will buy the marriage certificate. I believe that Obadiah Sr.'s first wife was Sarah Priestly. They had several children together and then she died. I know nothing about her. I don't know why Obadiah was not in the home in the 1901 census. I have heard that one of the Obadiah's was in the Boer War. But Obadiah Jr. Was too young and his father was probably too old to serve.
    I really appreciate your insight.
    Donna B

  8. #8
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi

    Please come back and let us know what the marriage certificate says. We like to tie up loose ends.

    There is this Boer war record but initials O M
    Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
    O M Bell
    Soldier Number 1844
    Rank - Private
    Regiment - Johannesburg Mounted Rifles
    Year 1899-1902
    Rolls Roll - 253
    Johannesburg Mounted Rifles, Rank.

    This could be Obadiah snr's death reg on FreeBMD
    Deaths Dec 1907
    Obadiah Bell age 60
    Newark vol 7b page 284

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  9. #9
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi again

    I have given your post a thread of its own to get it more attention and because I am not convinced as yet that Elizabeth was part of the gypsy family. However I have left it in the Romany forum for now.

    The posters on the original thread may receive email notification of your post if they still have the same email addresses.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  10. #10
    janbooth
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    Could these be their children (source Notts FHS Baptismal Index), all baptised at Newark St Leonard:

    Born 3 Dec 1874, bap 18 Apr 1882 Frank son of Obadiah & Elizabeth BELL, 11 Lincoln Street, Boiler Maker
    Born 2 Jan 1877, bap 18 Apr 1882 Eliza daughter of Obadiah & Elizabeth BELL, 11 Lincoln Street, Boiler Maker
    Born 15 Jan 1879, bap 18 Apr 1882 Maria daughter of Obadiah & Elizabeth BELL, 11 Lincoln Street, Boiler Maker
    Born 14 Dec 1881, bap 18 Apr 1882 Henry son of Obadiah & Elizabeth BELL, 11 Lincoln Street, Boiler Maker
    28 Nov 1883 Robert son of Obadiah & Elizabeth BELL, 11 Lincoln Street, Boiler Maker

    Their marriage also took place at Newark St Leonard on 27 July 1874 Obadiah BELL & Elizabeth SMITH.

    Janet

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