ISAACS - LEVY - GARCIA

[mark_bridge]

Sorry - there's a mistake in my last post. I meant to say that Samuel Isaacs Jr. - not Sr. - may have used family connections in Holland to source Dutch/Flemish Old Masters.

[phillip]

Mark and Stuart
In my own researches I have used the JewishGen London Traders Data base to good effect in tracing some of my lines. If you look at the data bases there appear a range of records on Isaacs in the orange and fruit trade with Samuel Isaacs Ebenezer Square Machzor 1807. Ebenezer Square was also the address in 1841 of Benjamin Harris. Whether the Samuel Isaacs in the much earlier record is a relative of yours needs confirming. There is also Abraham Isaacs Ornage Merchant and fruiter of 11 Lamb St from 1823-1843 and 14 King St Pigot 1836; Isaac Isaacs fruiterer 39 Theobalds Rd Robson 1835; Lazarus Isaacs Orange Merchant Duke's Place 1835 and 26 Mitre St Robson 1831 and 2 King St Watkins 1855; Michael Isaacs Orange Merchant 7 James Place Robson 1841-43; Clare Ct Drury Lane Robson 1830; S Isaacs Orange Merchant Duke's Place Robson 1835; S Isaacs fruiter 11 New St Covent Garden Robson 1823; Joel Isaacs Jamaica Coffee House Cornhill Merchant 1822 and same address in Holden 1809 with later dates up to 1824.
I have not recorded all the names and dates but you can see where the various individuals were at various stages in London and it is likely that the other Isaacs were related.
Phillip

[phillip]

Mark and Stuart
Is Napthali Isaacs the same person who appears in the 1861 Census as Nathan Isaacs widower living with Benjamin Harris and his children? I ask because based on Mark's post regarding Napthali Isaacs who became a bonnet maker with his wife Louisa this Napthali was also born Chatham Kent
1851 British Census- 1 Kingsgate St HO107 1507 436 91 (Crown Copyright,TNA)- NAPTHALI ISAACS H M 50 Straw bonnet Maker? b Chatham Kent; Louisa wife 49 bonnet maker b Norwich; Adelaide dau u 18 b Norwich; Ann R dau u 8 b St Lukes Middx.
Death Index Napthali Isaacs April qtr 1877 age 83 London 1c 294

Marriage- NAPTHALI ISAACS age 21 -23 March 1824 Saint Peter Mancroft Norwich Norfolk to LOUISA MARTIN ABEL

Also wondering if Napthali Isaacs relates also to 'my' John Isaacs b Chatham Kent

You will note the Kings Street address for Napthali Isaacs - Lazarus Isaacs Orange Merchant was at 2 King St in 1855
Phillip

[phillip]

Noted on Cemetery Scribes Site Henry Isaacs ID 1731 b 1811 Orange Merchant in 1841 Census - father ISAAC ISAACS b 1776 and mother Phoebe Abrahams? ( last name requires verification) 1776-1844- children known Henry; Abraham Isaacs 1797-1869.

I do not know if there is any relevance to the Samuel Isaacs Orange Merchant line but worth considering further research to verify.
Phillip

[Stuart R]

Phillip and Mark
Was unable to get down to the research I intended this last week but much encouraged and intrigued by the information you both have provided.
The only snippet I can offer at present is I can confirm from Synagogue records that Benjamin Harris' ( see Phillip 24/4) of Ebenezer Square first wife was indeed Hannah Samuel. Ebenezer Square built c1799 no longer exists as demolished in 1884 but was also resident to one of the prime Jack the Ripper suspects.
You have both submitted great lines of research to follow up and I thank you both. I shall be devoting some time to this project this week and let you know how I've progressed further next weekend.
Thanks again to you both
Stuart

[Stuart R]

Phillip,
Wonder if you could clarify your post of 28/4:
You posted a query regarding Nathan Isaacs living with Benjamin Harris and his family in the 1861 Census
I can trace Benjamin and the family in the 1851 Census but the family have vanished in both the '61 and '71 but Joel Harris their now married son appears with his family in the '81 Census. I have tried everything to trace the Harris' in the '61 and'71 Census to no avail and so was surprised when you mentioned of them as included in the '61Census.
Thanks
Stuart

[phillip]

Stuart
Here is the 1861 British Census for Benjamin Harris and Nathan Isaacs. Looks like transcription errors have affected tracing them accurately:
1861 British Census RG9 270 67 16 (Copyright,TNA)- 1 Middlesex Street Whitechapel
Benjamin Harris H M 56 General Dealer b Holland; Elena? wife 40 b Norfolk Yarmouth; NATHAN ISAACS widower lodger 60 General Dealer b Kent Chatham; William Harris son 9 b Whitechapel; Jewell Harris 13 ( recorded as daughter) b Whitechapel; Hannah Harris dau 6 b Whitechapel

Will look for 1871 Census data. The Harris appear in 1841 Census HO 107 725 1 18 31 - 1 Ebenezer Square St Botolph ( Crown Copyright; TNA) Benjamin Hraris 35 General Dealer Foreign; Hannha Harris 36 b in county; Moses Harris 6 b in county; Joseph Harris 3mths b in county; David Harris 7 b in county; Sarah Harris 2 b in county; William Abrahams 74 General Dealer; Morris Simmons 68 Porter

Any help?
Phillip

[Stuart R]

Thanks Phillip,
Yes, I have come across this entry in the 61 Census under Barris and as you say seems to be a transcription error. However I do have some reservations.
Firstly, Benjamin was born in 1809 and stated as aged 42 in the 51 Census. This 61 entry states age as 56 and should be 52. Ok not a million miles away but (transcription errors aside) there were quite a few Benjamin Harris's who were General dealers around at the time especially from Holland.
Secondly, the wife situation is especially intriguing. Her name is stated as Ellen/Elena again pretty near to Elinor and born in Yarmouth the same as Elinor. However her age is stated as 40 whilst Elinor would have been 48. It's possible that Benjamin was by 1861 widowed for the second time and remarried and if so would have taken his new wife's children as his own.
Oddly Jewell is a name adopted on occasion by Elinor's Father Joel in Yarmouth and Hannah (the other daughter from the 61Census) has the same name as Benjamin's first wife.
However I am not at all convinced this is the same family. What I find very odd is that,putting the 61 entry aside, there is no entries for the family in the 61 and 71 Census. I can not find anything that relates. Even Joel the son who appears as 3 years old in the 51 vanishes but reappears in 1881 as married with children. What reason would a Census miss a complete family( and I've checked the other children) for two consecutive Census, a period of 20 years.
Any ideas? as usual thanks for you time and help
Stuart

[phillip]

Stuart
I think that there are too many similarities for the Benjamin Harris 1861 family not to be the right one. It depends on who gave the information at the time of the census plus the accuracy of the recorder. Having looked for numbers of my own lines and not found them in all the census ( over more than a decade) -I have seen significant errors in several of my own lines and early on discounted them only to later discover they were the right people.there are many reasons for such gaps- moving around the country, census errors, misinformation,leaving the country- the reasons are extensive. Errors in dob, where born, incorrect names etc are very common.
If you look at the Harris/Isaacs in 1861 Census based on the previous census and your own person knowledge I would be very surprised if this was not your family.
Phillip

[ABrooks]

Stuart,
To add to Phillip's comments, there are also parts of the census that are missing. If you look on Ancestry at the description for each of the census databases they provide a list of the missing pieces etc. See link to 1861 Census description https://search.ancestry.com.au/search/db.aspx?dbid=8767. I was unable to find some of my ancestors in the 1841 census and after getting some clues to their possible addresses from other sources and cross checking with the missing census pieces discovered that was the reason I could not locate them in the census.
Adrian