Smith girls from Broadstairs Kent

[Wilkes_ml]

This is a problem that I keep going back to, hoping that I missed something previously. I may have mentioned it several years ago, but can't see any old thread relating to this family. If I do find an old thread, please feel free to link it.

George & Sarah Ann SMITH (nee BATCHELL) married in 1844 (have marriage certificate) and of 8 children, 7 were girls and the one son (John) died at nearly 11 months.

Family were at Upton St. Peters in 1851 HO107; Piece: 1630; Folio: 52; Page: 2
And at St. Peter’s in 1861 RG 9; Piece: 538; Folio: 138; Page: 18;

Mother Sarah Ann SMITH nee BATCHEL abandoned family between 1861 and 1871 (possibly to join her bigamous brother in America)

Father George SMITH was living with Emma Elizabeth BENNESS in 1871, and moved to Wolverhampton with Emma Elizabeth by 1881.

Daughters Hannah Mary (b. 1849), Louisa (b. 1851) & Ellen (b. 1856) all married and had children (and I have them all in the census and their marriage certificates)

So I’m trying to work out what happened to the two eldest daughters Sarah Jane & Elizabeth Ann, and the two youngest daughters Fanny & Rose Amelia. And maybe one day I’ll find out where their mother Sarah Ann ended up .

Sarah Jane SMITH (born 1844 Staple) was a 17 year old servant (nurse maid) in the home of Thomas WOTTON in 1861 (RG 9; Piece: 537; Folio: 55; Page: 12) I can see no marriage for her in East Kent parish registers now available online, and can not find her after 1861.

Elizabeth Ann SMITH (b. 1847 Woodnesborough) is recorded in 1871 census as Eliza SMITH at Plains of Waterloo, Ramsgate, 24 year old servant, occupied as a housekeeper for Richard & Ellen JOHNCOCK (RG10; Piece: 995; Folio: 26; Page: 1) Again, I can find no marriage locally and can not locate her in census after 1871.

Rose Amelia (born 1859 Broadstairs/St. Peters) can be followed thorough the census as she moves to Penge Surrey where she is a 21 year old general domestic servant for Katherine HERBERT in 1881(RG11; Piece: 824; Folio: 71; Page: 15) and in 1891 she is a 30 year old cook in the household of Edward & Adele FUCHSBALG ( 416; Folio: 102; Page: 43) by 1901 she is living at Newington, Southwark, aged 40, has left service and is living with a widower Frank JURY (born 1851 Newnham (near Faversham), Kent, and occupied as a laundress (RG13; Piece: 378; Folio: 45; Page: 82)

[By 1911 Frank JURY is at Sittingbourne, running a licenced lodging house keeper, supposedly married, and having been married for 5 years with no children from this marriage. (He had at least one son from his previous marriage) I suspected he may have married Rose Amelia, but the marriage in 1905 was with either Emily RILEY or Jennie TYLER.] If Rose & Frank had a relationship, she either died between 1901-1905 or they separated.

With Fanny SMITH (born 1861 Broadstairs/St. Peters) also seems to disappear completely after 1871.
It is possible that the three missing girls Sarah Jane, Elizabeth Ann & Fanny chose to join their mother and maybe left the country.

I have both families going back so not a brickwall, but I would like to know what happen to my 4x great grandmother’s sisters.

I thought maybe some fresh eyes on this may see something I have missed, and I'm also hoping that there may be new overseas records available that may show them if they all emigrated.

It really doesn't help with the surname Smith

[christanel]

Hi
I started to take a look at this yesterday and then the day went pear shaped. Toda isn't any better, I have a wedding to go to but I will look at it again. At least my post has bumped your thread up for others to see meanwhile.

Christanel

[Wilkes_ml]

Thanks Christanel...I think last time I look at this family I went through hundreds of SMITH entries on the passenger lists leaving the UK to see if daughters had all left together to visit their mother abroad, but I couldn't find anything conclusive.

To be honest, their mother was probably well gone long before the missing sisters were old enough and had enough money to travel. Yet emigration does appear most likely. maybe the eldest sisters worked in service long enough to help pay for the youngest sister (Fanny) to travel with them.

the other option is that they all went into service further away, in some other county and then married..but I've also tried going through every one in the later census with same first names born Broadstairs/St. Peters but I think I may have to do this again to be certail.

[geneius]

#2 I did exactly the same, drew a tree with the info went out, the day just disappeared!!!! A bit worrying....however unlike christanel I haven't a wedding to go to today, just the Christmas card writing to think about

[geneius]

Dipped in and out of the records and regret I cannot see records that would 'fit' the sisters

[Wilkes_ml]

This is a challenging problem, and I don't expect the answer to be in the normal "run of the mill" documents such as census' as I have been through them over and over again, although I may have missed something not obvious. I am hoping one day a descendant of one of these girls may just spot this post.

Unfortunately with them disappearing probably between 1871 & 1881 (father was "married" in 1871 but wife absent, father moved to Wolverhampton by 1881 with new "wife" Emma Elizabeth) I think it is too coincidental for 3 girls to completely vanish.

Also, from researching their uncle Robert BATCHELL who left his wife and children in the workhouse about 1861 and bigamously married another woman in Ohio, a couple of years later, I know that American marriage documents give very little information (Ohio ones do not name father's or anything really apart from the names of the parties marrying).

This one will drive me nuts forever!

[Wilkes_ml]

p.s. forgot to say thanks for looking...with the surname SMITH, it is like looking for a needle in a giant haystack! I couldn't possibly afford to buy all the marriage certificates throughout the UK to eliminate every possible marriage, but I think that (along with buying every possible death certificate) would be the only way. Given that the 3 girls & their mother probably died under a different surname, then the cost would be ridiculous!

[ratatat]

Hi:

I’ve been reading this post and wondered about doing a bit of looking. Rather than tackle them all, thought I’d focus on Rose Amelia - thinking that since she hadn’t married by 1901, she may still be traceable under the surname Smith as an emigrant. Also thinking that if she emigrated after 1901 at age 40+ she was probably going to family and may well appear in US or Canadian records under the name Smith.

You mention Robert Batchell, bigamous brother to Sarah Ann - uncle to Rose Amelia living in Ohio. Do you have any more information that might be relevant - locations, dates etc.

Also wondered if you have checked any of the death records? Specifically the Rose Smith - age at death 44 - registered in Maidstone, Kent, 1904, Mar qu, Vol 2A, Page 542.

ratatat

[Wilkes_ml]

I've just realised that I didn't reply back to ratatat....sorry, I was probably working on lots of things at the time, and I missed the notification.

I'm now having yet another look at this family as there may be more records available now.

In answer to Ratatat's post, I have uncle Robert BA(T)CHEL(L)s residence at Lauramie, Tippecanoe, Indiana, US in 1860 with his new "wife" Sarah who he bigamously married 25th December 1854 at Franklin Ohio, just 2 years after he arrived in New York aboard the "Ocean Queen" with his brother-in-law Simon JO(I/Y)NER and nephew Robert JO(I/Y)NER.

In 1870, Robert was living at Clarks Hill Tippecanoe, Indiana, but was back living with his original wife in Deal, Kent in 1881.

Children from Robert's bigamous marriage were Robert W. BATCHELL (b. 1855 Ohio), Jacob C. BATCHEL (b. 1858 Ohio) and another son called Daniel or James (b. 1860 Ohio)

Sarah Ann's sister Caroline JO(I/Y)NER also joined her brother & husband in Ohio 23rd November 1853 five months after the death of her 13 year old daughter, but died in 1855 at Columbus, Ohio, U.S. Her Husband Simon remarried in 1857 Frank County, Ohio, USA but died in 1860. One of their children died on the journey, and their oldest daughter died in 1853.

Of the remaining JOINER children (nieces & nephews of Sarah Ann and cousins of the SMITH girls) :

Robert Simon JOINER b. 1838 died in Ohio in 1894
Sarah Jane JOINER b. 1842....have yet to find out what happened to her.
Richard JOINER b. 1844 died 1930 Columbus State Hospital, Columbus, Ohio, US
Vincent John JOINER b. 1846 died 1891 Columbus, Franklin, Ohio, US
Frederick William JOINER b. 1849


Michelle

n.b. link to previous 2007 SMITH thread here