GARDINER John Henry Charles

[Carol Grimer]

I have been trying for 2 years to find ANYTHING about my Great Grandfather JOHN HENRY CHARLES GARDINER born Lambeth, London about 1854. This information was found in the 1901 census and on my Grandmothers Birth Certificate. Granny FLORENCE ANNETTA GARDINER (born 1900 London) and her sister KATHLEEN MARY ( born 1902 London) were raised in an Orphanage after the death of John and their Mother PHOEBE ANNETTA nee MARSHALL. I have not found any Birth Marriage or Death info for him. He may have died around 1902 and Phoebe may have died around 1905. Yesterday I discovered that the Orphanage where I thought Granny had been raised NORWOOD for Jewish children have no record of her or her sister, so back to 1911 census and found they were at THE CONVENT OF THE FAITHFUL VIRGIN AND ROMAN CATHOLIC SCHOOL. This has closed so cannot contact them for any information. ( Jewish children being raised in Roman Catholic Orphanage seems odd ) If anyone can help on either the Orphanage or John Henry Charles Gardiner I will be eternally grateful.
Regards Carol

[christanel]

Hello Carol and welcome to Brit-Gen

I have moved this post from Surname Interests to the London forum because you are requesting help and the surname forums are just for listing the names you are researching and then are locked.

Hopefully someone will be able to help you.

Christanel

[almach]

Hi there Carol, I too am new to this site but not new to FH, or forums. We can settle in together.

You don't sound certain that J H C Gardiner died circa 1902, so is it possible he was still living in 1911?

This 1911 census fits him in many ways, i.e. his occupation is Packer (same as 1901)

H. C. Gardiner (no John) age 58, born Lambeth, widower. He's conveniently filled in the when married/children details which have been crossed through but are still legible, details: 2 female children living, ages 12 ans 9 (not with him), married 14yrs.

Address: 133 Royal Rd, Kennington Pk S E, parish: Newington St Mary.

What do you think, Carol?

[almach]

Carol, you mention that the family are Jewish. Do you know if both J H C Gardiner and his wife were Jewish? Katherine Mary is not a typical Jewish name.

If JHCG was Jewish I wonder if he changed his surname at some time as Gardiner sounds Anglican (many Jewish folks did), if he did, this may be why you cannot find him pre 1901.

I guess you've found Phoebe A Marshall pre 1901?, maybe she was Catholic and hence the reason the two girls were in a Catholic School?

What evidence do you have suggesting the family were Jewish, is it possible the two daughter's married Jewish men and that's when Judaism was introduced into the family?

[almach]

I've hit upon this birth registration which I think looks promising if there has been a surname change. Genderer is not dissimilar to Gardener.

John Henry Carls Ernest Genderer, Sept qrt 1853, Lambeth, 1d 252.

[almach]

This must be the guy whose birth details I posted above. He's with his mother, step father and siblings.

1861, Hackney, RG 9; Piece: 160; Folio: 141; Page: 49

Richard Maurice 33
Marie Maurice 38, born Germany
John Gendner 7, stepson Lambeth
Edgar Gendner 6
Louis Gendner 4
Annie Gendner 2
David Gendner 1
William Downs 22
Caroline Lawrance 1

[almach]

Gotta go to bed now, I'll wait for your response before taking things further.

[almach]

Maybe they never married.

Here's a possible death. Phoebe Annie Marshall - Lambeth - Jan-Mar 1905, 1d 195

[Carol Grimer]

Thank you almach .Sounds promising ,will take a look.
Carol

[Carol Grimer]

Hi almach. We know that our Grandmother Florence was definitely Jewish as was our father, but have no idea whether that came from her mother or father. Have discovered that the Roman Catholic Orphanage took in children from any religion.
Carol