Clark family puzzle

[Happy Jackie]

My ancestor, Elizabeth Van Kempen, married George Clark; 2 Sep 1878 at St. John of Jerusalem, Hackney, London. They were both "full age". Elizabeth's father was George Peter Van Kempen and George's father was William Clark. Elizabeth was born in Stepney, London, England in 1852 but that doesn't seem to narrow the field much. Unfortunately, another George Clark married another Elizabeth about the same time, a little earlier 1871 but their ages are around the same. I thought I had the correct George Clark, born in Essex, but finally tracked his father down to David. I guesstimated his year of birth around 1849 to 1853 and in London but again, just too many census records where George and Elizabeth of about the same age are documented. Both families lived on Redwell Street in Hackney and David was a shipping clerk when he got married. George's father, William is an engineer. I would greatly appreciate any brilliant suggestions as to how I can narrow this down and find the correct family. Thanks for all your help.

[Wilkes_ml]

I am guessing that you have followed this couple back from the birth certificate of one of their children? So can you find the family in the census after the birth of that child, by searching on the child's name and birth place and year +/- a few years , specifying the parent's names ?

[Wilkes_ml]

Well, it may help to locate her in later census' Elizabeth is with her parents George & Caroline Vankempen in 1861 at Stepney, and her place of birth is given as Mile End Old Town

Ref: RG 9; Piece: 299; Folio: 88; Page: 19

I also noticed her birth was registered under the name Vankempen (all one word)

[Wilkes_ml]

Elizabeth was born November 2nd 1852 and baptised May 22nd 1853 at St. Dunstan, Stepney daughter of George Peter & Caroline Vankempen, of 18 Pack Street, Mile End Old Town, occupation: Accountant.

[Wilkes_ml]

Could this be them after they married in 1881? Ref RG11; Piece: 476; Folio: 102; Page: 27

George Clark , age 31, born Felstead, Essex
Elizabeth Clark, age 29, Mile End Old Town
George Albert Clark, son, age 7, born Mile End Old Town
David M Clark, son,age 10 months, born Stepney, Middlesex
Arthur Clark, brother,age 23 Born Felsted Essex
Walter Clark, brother,age 21 Born Felsted Essex
Herbert Clark, brother age 19 , Born Felsted Essex
Edgar Wenham Warner? brother-in-law,age 38 born Stepney, Middlesex

[Wilkes_ml]

I couldn't find Elizabeth, I assumed she had died.

I had however found her son David in 1901, a member has added an alternative name for him, as he is enumerated under the name Warner (I assume his mother's step family took him in after her death and he took on the name Warner) The member added the alternative name of Clark.

Ref: RG13; Piece: 339; Folio: 7; Page: 5.

I then noticed Elizabeth was alive....she had changed her name to Warner and was living with the Edgar W. Warner in the 1881 census, listed as his sister and a widow! She and her son are obviously wrongly listed as Warner instead of Clark. Her place of birth is Mile End

[Happy Jackie]

That was my first guess for George Clark and Elizabeth Van Kempen. However, I found a census with that George Clark and Elizabeth where he had three brothers living with him, Arthur, Walter and Herbert all also born in Felstead. Then I found a census record with all four boys and the correct dates and birthplaces and the father is David Clark so, not my George. As I mentioned previously there is another George and Elizabeth (probably Warner) around the same dates so, no, I have not found any of the correct children. The only "sure" information I have is the marriage license for George and Elizabeth Van Kempen, giving the names of their respective fathers. Thanks and if you think of anything else, please let me know!And yes, I have all the information for Elizabeth and her parents and grandparents.

[Wilkes_ml]

So you have the marriage Certificate of George Clarke, which states his father is William Clark, and you say you have his marriage Licence as well, but his marriage certificate says his marriage was by Banns not by licence. So do you mean his marriage certificate, marriage register entry or a marriage licence, which often gives more detail than a marriage certificate or the entry in the actual register?

I have looked at the actual register entry on ancestry, and although it does say his father is William, an engineer, it could still be an error made by the vicar/curate when filling in the register. Or it could be a deception mage by George Clark for some reason only known by George! Maybe David was his father but he fell out with him (were the boys abandoned or did David die?)

Anyhow, I feel that you need to look more into George & Elizabeth (Warner) before completely eliminating them.

I'll have a dig around, when I get a spare moment.

Also, could you give information on your George & Elizabeth's children i.e. their names, date & places of birth, as this will help me look for them in later census.

[Wilkes_ml]

OK. We can be certain that George Clark, son of David Clark married Emma Elizabeth Warner daughter of John Menzies Warner in 1871.

So that eliminates all the census entries previously mentioned! Back to square one!

We definitely need the children of your George & Elizabeth and as much information as possible about where they lived after they had their children that you know of.

[Wilkes_ml]

I would guess, as they were married at Hackney in 1878, and Georges occupation at time of marriage was Shipping Clerk, that this could be them in 1891 RG12 piece 206 folio 65 page 46

George Clark, age 37, Head , Shipping Clerk, born London Mile End
Elizabeth Clark, age 38, wife born London Mile End
Florence Tickney, age 15, niece, born Orpington, Kent