The missing Mum

[blueyeshorlicks]

You said




You replied


I'm sorry but that does not answer the question. We need to know exactly what words he used in relation to his son. Did he say "I leave...to my son Henry James Humphrys" or "my reputed son" or "my natural and lawful son" or what? It will also help if please distinguish between what is said in the grant and what is said in the will.

This is actually important.

I've told you all that refers to Henry James Humphrys in the will. I've also found the Probate notice of Henry James senior 18th Feb. 1836. His address was !7, Gleneagles Road, Streatham. Surrey........ 25th June Probate to Henry James Humphrys Art Dealer . I'm going to search the adoption info...What is the Grant?

[Peter Goodey]

I've told you all that refers to Henry James Humphrys in the will

So HJH senior didn't actually describe HJH Junior as his son?

[blueyeshorlicks]

So HJH senior didn't actually describe HJH Junior as his son?

Why is this so important? In the moral climate at the time, one would not admit easily to having fathered an illegitimate child. His wife Elizabeth Jane obviously knew, otherwise she would have objected to a non family member inheriting such a large 'chunk' of the property and it also being kept in trust for the grandsons. She also took a great interest in me when I was born and by that time, because it was out in the open, she was proud to announce me as her great grandchild and buy my pram.
Whether HJH senior described HJH Junior as his son (the photos of all the different generations of Humphrys men have very common traits) legally is in the end, not important. I am confident in HJH seniors paternity of HJH 'the younger'

[Peter Goodey]

The moral climate is not relevant. Wills are legal documents which can be challenged in court. Therefore people took great care to use a form of words that could not be legally challenged. The right of adopted children to inherit came fairly recently so if you wanted an adopted son to inherit you would be careful how you described him. The words which I suggested earlier (reputed, imputed, natural, natural and lawful etc) were used to cover different circumstances. You would be cautious in describing someone as a son if there were no evidence to back it up.

There may be some significance in the fact that he didn't describe HJH as "my son HJH" and described HJH Junior's sons as 'grandsons' (if that's what you're saying).

I'm no fan of DNA testing in genealogy but perhaps this is a case where it could be useful.

[louisa maud]

Same is we cannot discuss 1911 census but perhaps it can be accessed somehow whereby you can find out about baby Emma

Louisa Maud

[blueyeshorlicks]

As there were no challenges to the Will (HJH's Brother Charles and Sister Lavinia also inherited property etc. and of course Elizabeth Jane his wife..) Then also presumably having Charles and HJH junior as equal executors, also gave credence to this 'blood connection'.
Remember, if you've looked at 'Secretive Humphrys' thread, HJH senior's Dad was Chief inspector George Josiah Humphrys and his father & grandfather were Attorneys of the 'Temple' in London. So he presumably had legal advice who suggested this route!

[Peter Goodey]

I always assumed that there had been legal advice.

The relationship of the executor to the deceased (in the eyes of the registry) was often shown in the grant in those days. Is it in this case?

[blueyeshorlicks]

Same is we cannot discuss 1911 census but perhaps it can be accessed somehow whereby you can find out about baby Emma

Louisa Maud

Yes I'll have start this next week. I'll let you know how I get on!

[louisa maud]

It is my belief that Emma Emeny married Percival Arnold Smith 1928 Hampstead
Sidney E Smith , mother's maiden name Emeny born Hampstead 1930 June qtr, seems to be their child and he is on E R's below
I also believe there was a daughter Helen M born about 1929 who may have married Peter Hardie
Throughout Electoral registers they lived at 107 South Hill Park Hampstead with father Herbert Emeny

1919 Herbert E Emeny and Ruth Emeny were living at the above address, I believe Ruth was Stephenson, I can't find a marriage for these two

1926 same details as above
1930 Herbert E and Ruth Emeny plus Emma and Percival Smith at same address as above
then on various E R's as a family


Emma Smith will, wife of Percival Arnold Smith of 107 South Hill Park died 13/04/1959 Probate to Barclays Bank of £3958

I know I have gone on about Emily but it was she who was supposed to have married to someone completely different , I proved otherwise, and I have gone along the lines and not Humphrys line

Louisa Maud

[Lizzy9]

Same is we cannot discuss 1911 census but perhaps it can be accessed somehow whereby you can find out about baby Emma
Louisa Maud

I don't understand this quote. Louis Maud, are you of the opinion that 1911 census details cannot be posted on the forum? If so they can, providing you don't C&P and you do give census references.

1911, 103, South End Road, Hartley House, Hampstead. RG14, Piece 603, RD 8, ED 13.

Herbert Edward Emeny 43, widower, Gardening Jobbing, Little Hawkesly Essex
Emma Emeny 10, dau, Hampstead
Gertrude Emeny 9, dau, Hampstead
Ruth Mary Stevenson 41, Housekeeper, Norwich

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

If Emma was indeed 17 months old in 1901 she cannot be Edith Florence's dau.

The death record you mention is: Deaths Jun 1899, Edith Florence Emeny age 27, Chelsea 1a/273.

The 1901 census was taken - Sunday 31st March, making Emma aged 17 months born Oct 1899

However, 17 months may be wrong as this seems to be Emma's birth reg..........

Sept 1900 Hampstead, 1a/641. Emma Enemy.

Which would make her nearer to 7 months.