Just to clarify... Research guidance please

[Annamarie]

Could it be the case that others were brought in to do the job at home?

The reason I ask is because my great-grandfather may have been a miner during WW1 - either that or his occupation has been wrongly recorded on a document. It seemed a drastic change of direction (I always assumed it was a case of sons following fathers down the mines).

I came across a record for a schoolteacher conscripted during WW1. Rather then being sent to Europe he was sent to the mines because his father was a miner.

[Paul Marshall]

I'm not sure where government transparency comes into it but the benefits to be gained when the 1921 census is released are huge. We all know how beneficial the 1911 census was when that was finally released.

Nothing changes ...

Yorkshire Evening Post / Wednesday March 27 / 1901

*******************************************

"Census Taking In Leeds."

"A Tour With An Enumerator in Hunslet."

"Senseless" Papers And Twins.

The 286 enumerators in Leeds are only just begin-
ning to appreciate the sort of task they have under-
taken, and a lot of them would now willingly back
out were they not compelled by their signed agree-
ments to see this thing through. Their pay does not
err on the side of liberality: they are to receive a
guinea for the first four hundred and 3s. 6d. for every
additional hundred enumerated. The average pay
will be between £2 and £3 for three or four weeks'
work.

The average householder seems to deem it his or
her duty either to bully, to chaff, or by their colossal
ignorance to perplex the enumerator. Alas! for the
enumerator. To the illiterate tenant of a house the
mere sight of an oblong piece of official blue paper is
sufficient to either make them terrified or exceeding
wrath. If the Government had issued buff census-
papers the officials would have been saved many anxious
inquiries, and many lengthy explanations. Of course,
to everybody, excepting the gentlemen responsible for
the schedules, there is a lot of humour in "taking the
census."

The writer today accompanied an enumerator in a
tour round some of the [yards] in Hunslet. One
woman turned decidedly nasty when she beheld a man
with a bundle of blue paper standing outside her door.
"Here, what does tha' want, maister?" inquired the
gentle householder. "Good morning, ma'am," replied
the enumerator coaxingly, "I've brought you a census
paper which I want you to have filled up for me by
Monday morning, when I'll call for it." "I shan't fill
owt up, that's straight," fiercely retorted the female.
"Yes, my dear lady, but the paper issued is by the
Government," explained the official. "I don't care
whose gaen yer it, I'm noan bairn to hev no blue papers
left here," bawled the woman.

But the census man was not to be put off in this way,
and plaintively observed, holding out the schedule. "Now
my dear woman, take it. I assure you it won't hurt
you. The Government only wants to know the popula-
tion." "We ain't got no population," snapped the fair
one, "there's only me and my daughter." "Well. I'll
leave you the paper, and you might ask your daughter
to fill it up for you," said he. "I shan't do nowt at
sort; if tha leaves tha blooming thing here tha'll hev
to fill it up thessen when tha wants it."
The enumerator left the document on those condi-
tions, the door closing with a bang as he departed.

Happily, all householders are not ultra-pugnacious.
An old fellow standing in a doorway in another yard,
seeing the census-taker approaching, yelled out.
"Come on, guv-nor, with the senseless paper. I know
what's what I do. Hev had them things afore, but
it's easier now than it used to be to fill it up. There's
only me and missus now, lad."
And as he took the paper - and winked - he added,
"I know whose head of this family; it isn't missus,
neither."

At another house the woman and her two children
answered the door. The woman seemed perplexed,
but immediately one of the little children set eyes on
the paper his eyes brightened, and he exclaimed, "Oh,
mother, it's the census paper; teacher's told us all
about it."
And the mother satisfied the enumerator by telling
him that, "If I'm puzzled wi'it, our John'll help me."

"What does ta want me ta doa with this here
paper?" asked another woman on receiving a schedule.
By this time the enumerator had got a trifle ruffled,
and he excitedly replied, "My good lady, we are num-
bering all the people on the earth: you must fill up on
that paper particulars about the people who are in
your house on Sunday night."
The woman hesitated a minute, and then observed,
"Aye, master, that's reight enough, but we've twins
in't house, what'll we number them?"
The enumerator groaned.

*******************************************

[Paul Marshall]

I'm not sure where government transparency comes into it.

Me neither. Will the 1921 census be released? And will there be a census in 2021? Probably need to move this debate to another thread ... feel free ... while you can!

[Annamarie]

The war records that were destroyed,was the result of WW11 bombing. Some did survive intact, others ,known as the burnt records,are for the most part legible,though the odd burnt edge here & there.

By checking the medal records you could narrow down & locate a relative, but its still catch 22, because its the war record that tells you who received them(usually next of kin)or parents if not married. A further clue is that if they did receive a medal it was a result of over seas service,all other home based serving men & women did not.That changed by WW11, the differance was you had to apply for your medal if you survived the war

Thanks Michael,
Some of the records I've managed to find have burnt pages. Others are incomplete. The problem with the medal records are common names and the tendency to drift between counties. It is hard to pinpoint where they joined up, if at all. I've browsed the records on Ancestry which appear to be in alphabetic order to no avail.

[Paul Marshall]

If you look at the Service/Pension records the next of kin and/or name and adress of his wife and details of his children, if any (if he was married) are on there, quite often the marriage details as well ... usually on the third page I've found. It's a bit of a slog and takes some time. Don't rely on the Ancestry search engine ... it will only search for transcribed information, not every page was transcribed, usually only the first page and even that has quite often not been transcribed very well (IMO).

[Annamarie]

If you look at the Service/Pension records the next of kin and/or name and adress of his wife and details of his children, if any (if he was married) are on there, quite often the marriage details as well ... usually on the third page I've found. It's a bit of a slog and takes some time. Don't rely on the Ancestry search engine ... it will only search for transcribed information, not every page was transcribed, usually only the first page and even that has quite often not been transcribed very well (IMO).

Thanks Paul,
I do use the information contained in the records , not just the transcribed information. I have started to browse the records to see if any have been missed in the transcription process/ or been mistranscribed.

[Paul Marshall]

Hi Annamarie,

Sorry, I digressed a bit earlier. Who are you looking for? Maybe I can help ... and the rest of us here ...

Paul

[Colin Rowledge]

Sorry, I digressed a bit earlier. Who are you looking for? Maybe I can help ... and the rest of us here ...

Paul

Hi Paul.
You may or may not be interested, but I'll ask anway [and my apology for hi-jacking this thread].

My father was Illegitimate - born 1 February 1919. No father was named, but we know who he was. He survived the war, never married and died of Cancer on the way back from South Arica in 1957. While I have some information about properties he owned after the war, I am bereft of information about his personal/business life.

Do you have any idead? P/m me or use my email address.

Thanks
Colin

[Paul Marshall]

Hi Paul.
You may or may not be interested, but I'll ask anway [and my apology for hi-jacking this thread].

My father was Illegitimate - born 1 February 1919. No father was named, but we know who he was. He survived the war, never married and died of Cancer on the way back from South Arica in 1957. While I have some information about properties he owned after the war, I am bereft of information about his personal/business life.

Do you have any idead? P/m me or use my email address.

Thanks
Colin

Hi Colin, you're probably best starting a new thread with that one and providing a little bit more information ... not much to go on there!

[Annamarie]

Hi Annamarie,

Sorry, I digressed a bit earlier. Who are you looking for? Maybe I can help ... and the rest of us here ...

Paul

No problem Paul. I enjoyed reading post no. 14. Having recent experience as an enumerator in Aus things haven't changed!

There are a number of individuals in both my husband's and my trees. Three are my grandmother's brothers Thomas, George and Joseph Cox. Thomas was born in Smallthorne Staffordshire in 1889/1890. George b. 1894 in Smallthorne and Joseph Cox b. 1896/7 in Burslem Staffordshire. In 1911 they are living with their parents John and Matilda Cox in Unwin St Smallthorne. Thomas, his father and George were coal miners and Joseph was not working.

There are two records for George Cox and a George Henry Cox both serving with the South Staffordshire Regiment killed in action in 1918 in Flanders amongst other George Coxs born in Staffordshire. I haven't found their military records.
Cheers
Anna