Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default HERBERT EDWARD HOTHERSALL, in New Zealand

    HERBERT EDWARD HOTHERSALL, from Preston Lancashire, AKA, EDWARD JOSEPH HOTHERSALL in New Zealand
    Edward ( possibly also known as Ted) was born 13th November 1893, at Lightfoot House Farm, Broughton near Preston, to Edward Gregory Hothersall & Elizabeth Heyes. Around this time his father established E G Hothersall & sons Auctioneers & Valuers, at Preston auction market. He was a well respected man , had many contacts & became quite wealthy.

    However young Edward was apparently sent to New Zealand, as a result of something he had done? He departs London for Sydney, Australia on 20th December 1912, ship "Gothic", although just 19 ships record states 18 , occupation, farm hand. I can only assume he quickly followed on to New Zealand , but do not know when ?

    Some four years later he joins the New Zealand Expeditionary Force & died in France 3rd April 1918. His obituary in England, claimed "he was associated with Estate management & had charge or a horse & cattle ranch in New Zealand", another," became a very successful farmer". This I am not sure of.

    His war record states he was an Accountants Clerk working with David Clegg in Inglewood ( New Plymouth). This makes more sense, as David's brother Ernest is married Edwards sister, Gertrude, back in England.

    1891 Census, David Clegg, " Drapers apprentice", 30th August 1899,sets sail for Wellington N Z, "Draper" & on death certificate, 26th May1956, "Clothier". The Clegg family lived in & around Inglewood for many years. I wonder if any descendants of David Clegg can confirm my theory & have any information about the Clegg " Drapers/Clothier" business in Inglewood?

  2. #2
    Coromandel
    Guest

    Default

    Are you quite sure that Herbert Edward and Edward Joseph are the same person? The reason I ask is that I can see references to both H.E. and E. J. Hothersall in the NZ newspapers on the Papers Past website during the same sort of time period:

    https://
    paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast

    The marriage of a Herbert Edward Hothersall was announced in the 'Evening Post' [published in Wellington] of 9 January 1912, but his father's name doesn't match that in your post #1:

    'HOTHERSALL-BARROW. On the 3rd January, 1912, at All Saints, Kilbirnie, by the Rev. J.G.S. Bartlett, Herbert Edward, third son of the late John Oliver Hothersall, Wigan, Lancs, to Maud Ethel, eldest daughter of John Joseph Barrow, Esq., Blackpool, Lancs.'

    He may be older than the one you were looking for too: a 52 year old Herbert Edward Hothersall died in 1935, according to the NZ BMDs website:

    https://www.
    bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/

    It may help to trawl through all the Hothersall references on Papers Past: there are just 62 of them!

  3. #3
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Coromandel,
    You are correct in finding the other Herbert Edward married to Maud Ethel, also out in New Zealand at the same time, However he is older as you say. I even have that marriage certificate because once over I thought the same. My Herbert Edward definately went by the name Edward Joseph once in New Zealand, I think he just did not like Herbert.You can veiw his war record at Archives New Zealand, because it is digitalized, you will then see he has the correct parents Edward Gregory & Elizabeth.

    I also have his will dated 21st May1917 as Herbert Edward , but interestingly if you look at his signature he signed it E J Hothersall

  4. #4
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    Thank you Coromandel, for your suggestion of looking through Past Papers, because I do belive I have found Edward, Auckland Star 14th December 1914 & Otago Daily Times 19th December 1914. If it is him & looks very likely , he had escaped from Waikeria Prison Farm,whilst imprisoned for 6 months. Would very much like to found out what he had done, whether you can access court files or not? What an embaressment for his family (his father was a JP) Newspapers in Auckland & Hamilton would seem to be the best option.

  5. #5
    Coromandel
    Guest

    Default

    Oh, I'm glad the newspapers proved useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbrian View Post
    he had escaped from Waikeria Prison Farm,whilst imprisoned for 6 months.
    I wonder if that was where he 'was associated with Estate management'?!?

    I haven't tried researching NZ criminals before so have no idea of the best way of going about it. I couldn't find a guide to criminal records on the Archives NZ site, but they do have one about 'Police Gazettes', which sound very useful:

    https://
    archives.govt.nz/sites/default/files/Police_Gazettes.pdf

    The relevant ones seem to be at the Auckland branch of Archives NZ. They also hold many court records, according to the 'Archway' catalogue. For example, the 'Auckland criminal record books' (series no. 10254) are described as 'criminal cases heard at the Auckland Magistrates Court' between 1878 and 1953.

    The Research Services page of the Archives NZ page says 'Archives New Zealand is unable to carry out extended research or consultation of records on your behalf and you may need to employ a private researcher'. However, if your query is specific enough, they may be able to help.

    I guess there's no harm in asking if they would check the 'Police Gazette' index to see if there's a reference to your man.

  6. #6
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    There seem to be so many anomalies with Edwards details, besides his change of name in his war record, he lists his birth year incorrectly, as 1894 (was 1893). The county of Cheshire is indicated, it should be Lancashire. I cannot even locate his last New Zealand address" Adelaide Hotel", Hobson Street, Auckland. Have looked in "Wise" post office directory 1915,no mention of "Adelaide Hotel", did it ever exist ?
    Did he even work for David Clegg, or was it a convenient address & contact name? Perhaps he went straight from his reformative treatment, at Waikeria Prison Farm to enlist, the dates would suggest this.

  7. #7
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    How do I get details from the Police Gazette records in Auckland for late 1914 .I have contacted Archive New Zealand & only received an automated reply . I have some definite dates to go by for Edward Joseph Hothersall.

    He escaped from Waikeria Prison Farm on Monday the 7th of December, was rearrested on Saturday the 12th of December & in Hamilton Court on Monday the 14th of December. Hopefully some further details will emerge from these files ( like when first arrested & what for?). The papers state 6 months sentence, a short time ago.ie October or November 1914?

    Also can the Auckland Criminal record books 1878 to 1953 be accessed for 1914?, they might have some extra detail
    .
    Are there any archives for the Waikeria Prison Farm 1914 to 1916?

  8. #8
    Coromandel
    Guest

    Default

    Hello again. Other than waiting for a real reply from Archives NZ, I don't know what else to try (I've no shortage of criminals in my family tree but my NZ relations were quite well behaved as far as I know!). When I was looking at Archway the other day I did see some references to magistrates' court records from Auckland. Such records are unlikely to be digitised, so you might have to commission someone to search them for on your behalf. Also keep checking 'Papers Past' as they keep adding more material.

    You could try posting a new query about NZ criminal records, in case it catches the eye of someone who has experience of searching these records. I look forward to finding out the answers too.

  9. #9
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    Thank you Coromandel, once again for replying, I did get a further reply from Archives NZ, only this morning, so things are looking up. They told me it will cost $25 nz, to search what I think will be the years 1914 to 1916. Will just have to be a little more patient in future.

  10. #10
    michaelbrian
    Guest

    Default

    I followed up my Police Gazette enquiry, (with Archives New Zealand) by contacting the Department of Corrections. They proved to be so helpful, by supplying a copy of Edward's prison index card, along with very useful advice about Police Gazettes and Edward's war record. I cannot thank them enough for being so responsive to my request for information.

    The detail on the index card is fascinating, so I was able to pinpoint the first Magistrates Court appearance in Auckland 25th May 1914 (Theft of £10), his transfer to Waikeria Prison Farm and his second Court appearance at Hamilton (Incorrigible Rouge in as much as he escaped from lawful custody) and given a further six months hard labour, back in Auckland gaol (Mt Eden). Although his case was considered twice ( I presume for earlier release),the decision was deferred each time. so he served his full sentence to the 28th October 1916 (the same day he joins the New Zealand Expeditionary Force)

    The dates were very useful as I could look again at Papers Past, Police Court and found two more entries, regarding his arrest on 16th May 1914,further remand on 22nd May, unfortunately these digital images were very poor, as was the one for the 25th May, but with a bit of careful deciphering, we managed to get the gist of what he had done.

    He had only been in New Zealand four months.(which meant he had previously been a year in Australia) It appears he was due to start work on a farm at Clevedon, was given £10 to buy tools, but did not return. A week later he was further charged that he stole bags & contents, left momentarily unattended, in Auckland railway station.

    The Police Gazette also finally came through, which was equally interesting, but he was only mentioned once, on his discharge from Auckland gaol. Unfortunately the photograph, recorded as taken at Auckland on 16t May 1914, is not shown, (whether is survives somewhere I do not Know).

    I can now better understand all the anomalies, he was making sure no one realised he had just spent two and a half years in gaol.

    Further spelling mistakes in the New Zealand papers, made it a challenge to find detail of his joining the army, surname spelt Hathersall and on his death in France, spelt Hotersall.

    An article about First Offenders' Probation in Auckland at around the same time, though not naming names, could well be Edward;- A " black sheep" of a highly respectable family. Laziness the root cause of his failure.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: