Thomas and Sarah Barge

[KathNZ]

Can anyone help with this problem?
Here is the story so far.
Thomas Barge marries Caroline Slaughter, 18 Jul 1871, Trinity Church, Paddington. The marriage cert. gives Thomas’ details as – age – 31, occupation - mariner, residence – 9 Westbourne Terrace North, father’s occupation – professor of music.
Thomas gives his place of birth as
1881 – Manchester
1891 – Sheffield, Mancester
1901 – Manchester
1911 – Manchester, Lancs
The only Thomas Barge I can find in 1871 is a 29 year old Thomas – Enquiry ? Agent, living in Russell St, Chelsea with his wife Jane and 9 year old son Harry.
The only other census records I can find that seem to fit are the 1841 record for William Barge 20 – Publican, wife Frances 25 and children Sarah 3 & Thomas 1 living at Chapel St, Salford.
This ties in with the christenings of the above children at Cathedral, Manchester in 1837 & 1840 as shown on the LDS web site. William’s occupation is engraver of christening records so his time as a publican could have been limited.
Frances Barge died in 1842 shortly after her infant son William according to newspaper reports.
The death cert. of infant William gives his father’s occupation as engraver.
I have been unable to find this Thomas & Sarah or their father William in the 1851 or 1861 census.
I have recently been in contact with a descendant of a Sarah Ann Barge and she has the marriage cert of her ancestor which gives the following details.
17 May 1864, St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire
Henry William Peach – full age – Commercial Clerk – 2 Peirce St, Paddington
Sarah Ann Barge – full age – spinster – 10 Eccles Old Rd, Pendlebury
Brides father – William Barge – Musician
Witness Robert Barge, Sarah Kenyon
Sarah’s place of birth in the census records after her marriage are
1871 – Manchester, Lancashire
1881 – Salford, Lancashire
1891 - Salford, Lancashire
Sarah died in 1897. I am unable to find Sarah in 1851 or 1861.
Can anyone find Sarah & Thomas after the death of their mother Frances and can anyone solve the mystery of William Barge musician/professor of music.

[Raffaele]

A recent 'Who do you think you are?' featured John Bishop whose ancestors of around the same period made radical career changes into music. This might provide sime insight and perhaps prompt some new ideas on this brickwall

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p8qqw

[Peter Goodey]

professor of music

"Professor of Music" just meant "music teacher". It didn't imply any particular qualifications - or indeed any at all.

[janbooth]

Well, the 1841 census of Salford (HO107/585/17, folio 16, page 23) shows William BARGE, aged 20, Publican, living at Chapel Street with wife Frances, aged 25, and children Sarah, aged 3, and Thomas, aged 1. But can I find him, Sarah & Thomas in the 1851 & 61 census records, can I heck! I can find Thomas BARGE married to a Sarah still in Salford in the 1871 and subsequent records so siblings Sarah & Thomas must be somewhere between 1841 & 1871.

Will carry on looking.

Janet

[Sue Mackay]

Family Search has the marriage of a William BARGE to a Frances TURNER in Prestwich, Lancs on 13 March 1836.

[janbooth]

Ancestry have the actual images of the baptisms of Sarah Ann (born 16 April baptised 10 May 1837 at Cathedral, daughter of William & Frances BARGE, Manchester, Machine Engraver) & Thomas (baptised 16 April 1840 at Cathedral son of William & Frances BARGE, Salford, Publican). Ancestry also has the parish register image of a marriage at Prestwich St Mary on 13 March 1836 of a William BARGE and a Frances TURNER of Oldham which sounds a likely candidate for the marriage of your William & Frances. What could also be relevant is the baptism at Manchester Cathedral on 4 June 1817 of a William BARGE son of Robert & Elizabeth BARGE, Manchester, Engraver. Several other baptisms to this couple including Thomas, John, Sarah and Robert amongst others. Could Robert jnr be the witness at the marriage of William PEACH & Sarah Ann BARGE perhaps??

Still no nearer to finding any of them in the 1851/61 census records though.

Janet

[Paul Marshall]

Like you I can't see any sign of Thomas & Sarah nor their father William in the 1851 / 1861 census.

Seems like all the Salford / Manchester BARGE families were related somewhere along the line, and they turn up everywhere later! Not very imaginitive with forenames either, which doesn't help. For example ...

Baptisms / burials at Manchester.

Children of Robert & Elizabeth. Robert's occ: Engraver.
Isabella BARGE / bap. 17 Dec 1813 / d. 22 Aug 1814
Jane BARGE / bap. 20 Mar 1816 / d. 9 June 1816
William BARGE / bap. 4 Jun 1817 - married Frances, father of Sarah Ann & Thomas? Publican, Engraver, Musician?
Robert BARGE / bap. 10 Mar 1820 - Present at Sarah Ann's wedding in 1864?
John BARGE / bap. 1 Oct 1824 / d. 19 April 1825

Children of Thomas & Emma. Thomas' occ: Engraver - brother of the above Robert (Senior)?
Elizabeth BARGE / bap. 15 May 1825
Robert BARGE / bap. 11 Sep 1826 / d. ?
Robert BARGE / bap. 8 Feb 1829 / d. 8 Mar 1831
William BARGE / bap. 23 Jan 1831
Sarah BARGE / bap. 31 Oct 1832
John BARGE / bap. 19 Mar 1834
Emma BARGE / bap. 8 Apr 1835

Thomas (who married Caroline in July 1871) gave his occupation then as "mariner" so I guess he could have been abroad or at sea during the time of the 61/71 census. I checked all the houses on Westbourne Terrace North, which he gave as his address, in 1871 but no clue there. I thought he might have been staying with a relative. The houses were not numbered in the schedule so no way of knowing exactly who was at number 9.

As for his father William and sister Sarah Ann I haven't a clue. I'll have another look later ...

There is also a Thomas BARGE who married Sarah MASSEY, 20 May 1866 Manchester St John's.
Thomas BARGE / 30 / Bachelor / Bleacher / 5 Silk Street / Thomas BARGE / Engraver
Sarah MASSEY / 27 / Spinster / 1 Evan Street / John MASSEY / Glass Cutter

Paul

[Paul Marshall]

There is also a Thomas BARGE who married Sarah MASSEY, 20 May 1866 Manchester St John's.
Thomas BARGE / 30 / Bachelor / Bleacher / 5 Silk Street / Thomas BARGE / Engraver
Sarah MASSEY / 27 / Spinster / 1 Evan Street / John MASSEY / Glass Cutter

Baptism 14 Dec 1836 / Collegiate, Manchester / Thomas Barge / son of Thomas Barge & Emma / Salford / Engraver

Paul

[janbooth]

Glad it's not just me that can't find them, Paul! Robert BARGE jnr, Engraver, is in the 1841 census of Salford (HO107/585/4, folio 14, page 21) living at Mottram Street with wife Phoebe. I have obviously found a different Thomas BARGE in the 1871 and subsequent census records who is married to a Sarah and still living in Salford. We can at least discount him from the equation as I have just found the parish register image of his marriage to Sarah MASSEY on 20 May 1866 at Manchester St John and his father was Thomas BARGE, Engraver so this Thomas BARGE jnr was probably William the Engraver's nephew. There is also another marriage at Manchester St John on 8 January 1866 of another Thomas BARGE, to an Eliza MALLINSON, who was the son of Robert BARGE, Agent. It doesn't make it very easy to track the correct line but I'll have another look for them later.

Janet

[Paul Marshall]

Thomas (who married Caroline in July 1871) gave his occupation then as "mariner" so I guess he could have been abroad or at sea during the time of the 61/71 census.

Probably worth checking ship's crew lists, merchant navy lists etc if you know where to look. I wouldn't know where to start there to be honest. I see one or two possibilities in the records on Ancestry but I can't access the full details as I don't have a worldwide sub. There are other resources available I guess, maybe something in the National Archives online records?

Paul