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  1. #41
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    Take a look at GenUKI "Civil Registration" which provides a good overview of the historical and legal requirements for Civil Registration in the UK. You will note from the information that it was not compulsory to register births until 1875 and a 6 week requirement for registration was made. Issues such as illegitimate births, poor standards of literacy, immigration, religion and other factors all contributed to making early registration from 1837 often a complex affair when tracking down ancestors. It maybe that there is no civil registration for your ancestor and any name change only complicates the matter. With regard to the need to have proof of birth this would not apply to most people even when marrying ( some of my distant relatives had alias when marrying and gave false information due to prior criminal backgrounds and other issues) and factors such as travelling abroad or making wills etc was not wide spread.
    Phillip

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    Hi there.. I'm new to this site (a few minutes since joining)... And I can see this is a very old thread. But if anyone's still interested, I know a lot about several of the ancestors mentioned... Particularly Samuel Lewis and his son Jacob. And also the Emanuel family .. all from Spitalfields in the latter half of the 19th century.. Hope this will help....

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    Welcome Stuart. If you know anything about the parentage of the Charles Isaac Lewis who was the focus of this thread, I'd certainly be interested as it has proven challenging to find his early years and ancestry.

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    Hi there.. I've just skimmed your thread and can now see what a mystery it all is. I've also looked on my own tree and can see I looked at this several years ago and have Isaac down as Isaac (Charles) Lewis born 1845 in the East Riding and married to Elizabeth Emanuel. But I've included plenty of "not verifieds" en route so I obviously confronted the same problems as you have but didn't dwell. Because my interest is really on Elizabeth's brother - Moss Emanuel (1831-1881) who (with wife Fanny Cohen) produced a daughter who they also named Amelia. This Amelia Emanuel (1858-1895) married the man who I think might be my grandfather - Jacob (John) Lewis - son of Samuel Lewis (1821-1911) who are both mentioned in the course of this thread. And that side of the family I DO know about, so ask me anything and I'll try to help. BTW I can also confirm Barnett Emanuel (1800-1879) was definitely a successful and wealthy fruit merchant. In his earlier years he was transported to Tasmania as a convict. Died of gout aged 79...

  5. #45
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    I now have access to the Jewish Chronicle Archives 1814-2018 and noted (if relevant to your line) the death of Samuel Lewis in 1911 age 91:
    16 Dec (Kislev 25th) Samuel LEWIS age 91 For 50 years chorister of the Great Synagogue Duke's Place. Deeply mourned by his sorrowing daughters Mrs Esther JACOBS; Mrs Kate DAVIS and his sons JACK; 88 Loraine Mansions, David 30 Lysteria Park N; Hyman of Melbourne Australia, grand children and great grandchildren.
    Samuel died 6 Cricketfield Road Hackney
    Jewish Chronicle Dec 22 1911

    I will take a look at other names in the thread and see if the JC has any other relevant data.
    Phillip

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    StuartLewis (06-10-2018)

  7. #46
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    Many thanks Phillip,

    I discovered that one about a year ago and it IS (to me) of great interest. Because the name Jack is definitely Jacob (John) Lewis who was only known as Jack for a few short years. All proven variously including an electoral roll record from a year later at 88 Loraine Mansions. Do please shout if you come across any more.. Regards Stuart (who will now tick your "thanks" box)

  8. #47
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    I have been using the Jewish Chronicle to check various addresses and names relating to your lines. As a small start here is some data which might be of use:
    Death
    On the 22 March 1905 at 8 New Street Gravel Lane Houndsditch KITTY daughter of the late Barnett and Amelia EMANUEL, late of Duke's Place Aldgate, sister of Lewis Emanuel 11 Alfred Street; Mrs Sarah Levy 8 New Street Gravel lane, Mrs J Defries 35 Nile Street City Road, Mrs J Cohen 11 St. Mark Square Dalston

    The address of 9 King Street St James Place Aldgate was the well known Sam's Coffee House with Solomon Joseph and his wife Jane as owners. On the death of Solomon, Isaac Isaacs married Jane and by 1890 Mrs Sarah Hyman daughter of Jane took the business over.
    There are various references to the Isaacs in Mitre Street Aldgate as fruiterers.
    I am happy to post further data if any use.
    Phillip

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    StuartLewis (09-10-2018)

  10. #48
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    Many thanks again Philip. Very useful and I've added Sarah and Catherine to my tree. But (I can see you're very experienced at all this) can you answer this one? Re DNA. If one expected a close DNA match with a person discovered from very careful research - a person with whom one suspected one shared the same great grandfather - and if such a match did NOT materialise on 23&me - would you conclude you've got it completely wrong (despite substantial circumstantial evidence). I ask that even though I am totally pro-science.

    Thanks Stuart

  11. #49
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    Stuart
    You might want to look closely at the DNA forum on this site. There are many sensible responses from people who have looked at DNA tests and have contributed informed views.
    One of my distant cousins and myself undertook the same DNA test and we do not share the same test results although we have documentary proof regarding our shared ancestors. It all depends on the test site and how far back the ancestral roots go among other factors. I know that numbers of people are doing more than one DNA test so as to correlate results but I am not an expert in the field.
    My own thinking is to get confirmed documentary evidence where possible and double check with potential distant cousins. That is what I have done for twenty years and it has stood me in good stead.
    Phillip

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    christanel (09-10-2018)

  13. #50
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    Here is the JC record for the death of Isaac aka Israel L Isaacs brother of Amelia Emanuel and for Amelia's death:
    Mr I L Isaacs,Sam's Coffee House 9 St.James's Place Aldgate thanks for condolences for his late sister MRS B EMANUEL 20.12.1878

    Death 19.12.1880 at his residence Sam's Coffee House 9 St.James Place Aldgate ( from effects of an accident a few days previously) aged 67 years

    Just in case I omitted this record in earlier posts:
    Death 3.12.1878 at 9 King Street Aldgate wife of Barnett Emanuel aged 72.The Tombstone in memory of Amelia Emanuel wife of Barnett Emanuel of 9 King Street Aldagte will be set 16.3.1879 at West Ham Cemetery

    Phillip

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