Gypsies in Benwick , Cambridgeshire 1800-1810

[Zingari]

I'm researching my Gypsy/ Smith family but can't go back further than 1805 -1810. Anyone know of gypsies living in Benwick , Cambridgeshire 1800-1810 . Only have my G G grandmothers first name -Sarah who was possibly born there . She married William Smith in 1826 in Stonesfield , Oxfordshire.

[Coromandel]

Hello Zingari and welcome to the forum

Only have my G G grandmothers first name -Sarah who was possibly born there . She married William Smith in 1826 in Stonesfield , Oxfordshire.

Before you can identify the right family, you will need to find out Sarah's maiden name.

If any of their children were born after the introduction of civil registration of births, marriages and deaths (July 1837) you may be able to get a birth certificate, which should tell you the mother's maiden name. Unfortunately not all births were registered in the early years of civil registration, and even if your Smiths are in the index it may be difficult to distinguish them from all the other Smiths (unless they had very distinctive first names).

Until you have Sarah's maiden name it's also going to be difficult to be sure you've got the right marriage. Where have you seen details of the 1826 Stonesfield marriage? The Oxfordshire Family History Society has transcribed the Stonesfield registers and also produces a county-wide marriage index covering 1500s to 1837. The original Stonesfield marriage register for the period you want is at the Oxfordshire Record Office. I would be surprised if the bride's surname isn't mentioned . . . though there are always surprises in genealogy!

[Coromandel]

Hi again. A similar query (perhaps yours?) on the RomanyJib website mentions that the youngest son Francis G. Smith was born about 1850/1851 in Stonesfield:

https://
gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/thread/5028326/Smith+family+%3A+++Headington+Quarry+%2F+Stonesfie ld+%2F+Woodstock

I see from FreeBMD that there's a birth registration for a Francis George Smith in the Woodstock registration district (which covered Stonesfield) in the third quarter of 1850 (volume no. 16, page 151). You could send off for a copy of his birth certificate by contacting the GRO and quoting the above details.

https://www.
gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

(Register with them to order online, or go to the 'Contact Us' section for details of how to apply by post or on the phone.)

https://www.parishchest.com/a_histori...ypsies__P93213

[Zingari]

Thanks for your detailed reply. I have seen the marriage certificate of William and Sarah ,1826 Stonesfield but her last name is not shown. I can only conclude that it was simply omitted by mistake or that her name was also Smith ? Francis G Smith is my G Grandfather. I will check again the info on their children's birth certificates . So many Smiths connected to Headington Quarry / Woodstock / Stonesfield and they obviously were itinerant farm workers. Sarah in the 1841 census is listed as born 1811 Oxfordshire living in Woodstock. In the 1861 census she says she was born in Benwick - Cambridgeshire , living in Headington St Clement . I am new at all this sleuthing but you are obviously a pro !

[Coromandel]

Sarah in the 1841 census is listed as born 1811 Oxfordshire living in Woodstock. In the 1861 census she says she was born in Benwick - Cambridgeshire , living in Headington St Clement .

Are you absolutely sure you have the right people in 1861? The reason I ask is that there's something very important you need to know about the Stonesfield 1861 census: it is missing. So if your family stayed in Stonesfield they just won't be on the indexes in Ancestry etc., because the census enumerators' books haven't survived.

I can see your William & Sarah in Stonesfield in 1851 (HO 107/1730, f.283, p.5):

William Smith, head, mar., 46, ag lab
Sarah, wife, mar., 41, gloveress
and children James (23, ag lab), William (21, ag lab), John (19, ag lab), Eliza (16, gloveress), Maria (14, gloveress), Lydia (12, scholar), Sarah (10, scholar), Daniel (8, scholar) and Francis (9(?) months), all born Stonesfield.

Sarah (by then a widow) was still in Stonesfield in 1871 (RG 10/1448, f.104, p.16)
Sarah Smith, head, widow, 64, pauper, born Oxon Stonsfield
children John (39), Daniel (28) and Frank (20) all agricultural labourers, and George (14), farmer's boy, plus lodger Maria Gardner (widow, 68, gloveress). All shown as born Oxon Stonsfield.

At the moment I'm struggling to find the Sarah from Benwick, who you say was in Headington in 1861: could you provide a census reference, please?

I have seen the marriage certificate of William and Sarah ,1826 Stonesfield but her last name is not shown.

I am not quite sure what you mean by marriage certificate in this context. Usually the term only applies after 1837 when you can send off for copies of certificates. Do you mean you have seen the Stonesfield church register, or an extract from it?

I had a quick look in the Oxfordshire FHS marriage index but couldn't see a William Smith marrying in Stonesfield in 1826. I didn't try very hard though, so may have missed him! As I've said above, the first step is to check the birth certificate for your Francis G. Smith to see what it says about his mother's maiden name.

[geneius]

There is a short precis on this site about the SMITH's of Headington Quarry Cambs, where there is a similar query

https://
gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/page/Headington+Quarry+Oxfordshire

[Zingari]

Your reply explains why I can't find 1861 Stonesfield info. Thank You . I found Sarah Smith ( who I think is my Sarah ) in the census from Genes reunited 1861 . Reason she shows up is because she was living in Headington St Clements and lists her birth place as Benwick in 1811. In the 1861 census at least two of her children - Eliza and George are shown at that location, perhaps they were living there temporarily ? In 1871 they seem to be back in Stonesfield ( by which time William had died ( in 1868 ) I don't understand why all other records list her as being born in Stonesfield - wonder if she moved there as a baby and never lived in Benwick . Yes it was the church register that shows their marriage in 1826. My son has a subscription to Ancestry.com so I have seen the actual document but can't access it myself. Do you know if Sarah's children's birth/ marriage certificates would show her maiden name ? Thank you so much !
Also - genieus - yes that's my post ! I have read the Smiths of Headington Quarry . Thanks

[geneius]

I found Sarah Smith ( who I think is my Sarah ) in the census from Genes reunited 1861

Can you state the census reference number

RG9?????

[Coromandel]

I found Sarah Smith ( who I think is my Sarah ) in the census from Genes reunited 1861 . Reason she shows up is because she was living in Headington St Clements and lists her birth place as Benwick in 1811.

I have found a Sarah Smith in the Headington registration district who Findmypast claims was born in 'Benwick, Leicestershire'. I don't know if she's the one you've found? The census enumerator's book says that this Sarah Smith was born not in Benwick, nor in Leicestershire, but in Berwick on Tweed. What is more, she was unmarried, and is shown as the sister-in-law of the head of the household, James Kirkpatrick, a college butler, and they're living in Merton Street, Oxford St John. (RG 9/81, f.76, p.2). So far I can't find a Sarah matching the description you give in St Clements. It would be really helpful if you could give the census reference (which will begin RG 9....) so that I can go straight to it (I'm not a member of Genes Reunited).

In the 1861 census at least two of her children - Eliza and George are shown at that location, perhaps they were living there temporarily ?

I think I've found Eliza (27, born Stonesfield). She was a housemaid at the Vicarage in Headington in 1861 (RG 9/890, f.48, p.23). So far I haven't found George though (I tried searching for Smiths born in Stonesfield). Is the George Smith you found with Sarah? Does the census say he was born in Stonesfield?

Do you know if Sarah's children's birth/ marriage certificates would show her maiden name ?

Her children's birth certificates would show her maiden name (see post #3), but not their marriage certificates.

Yes it was the church register that shows their marriage in 1826. My son has a subscription to Ancestry.com so I have seen the actual document but can't access it myself.

I can't access it myself either, but I can tell that it is part of a 'Public Member Tree'.

[Coromandel]

I have found a Sarah Smith in the Headington registration district who Findmypast claims was born in 'Benwick, Leicestershire'. I don't know if she's the one you've found?

I have just had a go on Genes Reunited to see how much I can see without being a member. They do show the above Sarah as being born 1811 in Benwick (but don't say anything about Cambridgeshire). It is really crucial not to take the information in this index as gospel: you need to look at the transcription or (better) the image of the census enumerator's book to see what it really says. The images give a lot more information than the index, too. I think this must be the same Sarah who is shown in the census enumerator's book as being born in Berwick. As she's not married (and is a curate's sister-in-law!) I think it very unlikely that she's your Sarah. Sorry!

What you need to do to make sure you're on the right track is to order a birth certificate for one of Sarah's children. Fingers crossed that her maiden name was something distinctive!