Before General Registration

[Peter Goodey]

I can see Henry (1815) and Ann (1819) baptised at West Twyford. I can't spot Thomas and Diana. Where were they done?

[Guy Etchells]

This is why I do not like sites which provide a single return to a search.
When using Parish Registers it is often important to reconstruct a number of families.
In doing so one can often attempt rule out parents on the grounds they had a child within nine months of the baptism or even birth of the child in question (always bearing in mind baptisms did not always quickly follow births).
Children may also be ruled out on the grounds of the wrong father or mother, or perhaps they did soon after birth or in childhood before marriage etc.
Sometimes parents may be ruled out due to the occupation of the father being wrong.
All such "evidence" must be examined, considered and weighed before reaching a supposition.
The supposition is then considered in light of any or all other evidence available from alternative records wills, census, deaths, marriages etc.
Cheers
Guy

[Mutley]

Family History back then is rather like doing a jigsaw puzzle. Loads of pieces of blue sky which sometimes seem to fit, until you find later you have a hole you cannot fill. As Guy said, lots of pieces, in our case evidence.

Ealing and Rotherhithe are not a million miles away from each other, in fact probably about 15 miles and in those days I should think they walked it faster than we can drive it now! So it cannot be ruled out until you find the evidence that will eliminate it. Elimination is just as important. Have you tried to track the Rotherhithe couple?

What was Thomas's occupation?
Our ancestors travelled miles for work and a labourer rarely became a lawyer.

Peter said "To help you we need to start from the one you know" so that seems to be Henry.
Was he married to Maria?

[Peter Goodey]

We need to know more about Henry. What are his marriage details?

[janbooth]

Juliana is not a particularly common forename, so the marriage in Rotherhithe (full details given below via Ancestry's London Parish Registers) is certainly one to bear in mind.

23 August 1800 at Rotherhithe St Mary Thomas BISHOP, bachelor, and Julianah Cooper HARRIS, spinster married by banns. Both signed their names and the witnesses were Thomas HARRIS, who signed, and Martha HARPER who made her mark.

The 1851 census record seems to tie in quite well with the details you already have. Ann BISHOP is the correct age, she gives Brentford as her birthplace which is pretty close to Ealing and the family could have moved there when she was quite young so as far as she is concerned that was her birthplace. Julianah, described as a widow on Parochial Relief, gives her age as 73 and her birthplace as Denham, Bucks.

The 1841 census of St Marylebone shows Thomas BISHOP aged 65, Labourer, wife Julian BISHOP aged 63 and daughter Ann BISHOP aged 22 living at Lisson Street (HO107/677/2, folio 30, page 52). Juliana's name is quite faint so I would guess that it has been mistranscribed and that is why you could not find her.

1851 census of Uxbridge (HO107/1697, folio 28, page 16) shows a Henry BISHOP aged 35, Shoemaker, born Ealing living with wife Maria, two children and a lodger in the village. Is this your Henry? If so, his marriage is on Ancestry on 7 May 1844 at St John Paddington to a Maria RUTHERFORD. He is shown as a Widower, Shoemaker, and his father is shown as Thomas BISHOP, Carter. I think his first marriage also appears on Ancestry at Ickenham in 1833 to a Harriet BUTLER although he appears to progress from a Labourer in the 1841 census of Ickenham, Uxbridge to a Shoemaker in the 1851 census of Uxbridge?

If this is your Henry, then these are the details you should work back from as Peter has suggested.

There is a burial on Ancestry's London Parish Registers of a Thomas BISHOP at St Marylebone on 5 May 1850, aged 74 of Charles Street which fits in well with the Thomas BISHOP in the 1841 census.

Janet

[Peter Goodey]

The Rotherhithe marriage would appear to be the right one because census entries show Juliana's birth place as Denham BKM and FamilySearch shows a Juliana COOPER marrying a John HARRIS in Denham on 22 Nov 1772. Juliana Cooper HARRIS is very likely their daughter,

[janbooth]

Further thoughts as to why Juliana is in West Drayton in the 1861 census. If you look at the 1861 census for Henry BISHOP, he is living at Southall Place, Norwood, Uxbridge but his children are all shown as born in West Drayton. Presumably Juliana moved to West Drayton to be near her son Henry and his family.

Can't find a baptism for Juliana in Buckinghamshire yet, but interestingly given that a Thomas HARRIS was a witness at her marriage, there is a baptism on Pallot's Baptismal index of a Thos HARRIS at Castlethorpe Bucks son of J & Martha in 1782. Also another baptism for an Ann HARRIS at Castlethorpe daughter of J & Ann in 1777 (information via Ancestry)

Janet

[janbooth]

Well spotted Peter so ignore the latter part of my post above as this would appear to be a different HARRIS family.

Janet

[janbooth]

There are baptisms of 6 children to John & Juliana HARRIS at Denham on IGI Family Search including the birth of a Thomas Cock HARRIS in 1777 who could perhaps be the witness at Juliana's marriage but no baptism for Juliana herself. However, there is a gap in baptismal records between 1777 and 1784 when an Isaac was baptised at Denham, so perhaps Juliana was baptised elsewhere - the 1861 census shows her birthplace as Upton?

Janet

[Jenko]

Diana (1812) was in St John the Baptist, Hillingdon and Thomas (1822) in Ealing, Middlesex.