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Thread: Peach

  1. #1
    David_H
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    Unhappy Peach

    There is a tree of Thomas Peach & Elizabeth Heape and their descendants at
    https://www.h1932.com/Peach/
    note that this URL is case sensitive

    I am looking for the marriage of John Peach and Elisabeth Handley anywhere in England between 1782 and 1787 (alternative spellings Elizabeth, and also Handly).

    I am also looking for the baptism of any and all who were baptised Elizabeth Peach in Derbyshire, Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Staffordshire in 1785, 1786, 1787 and 1788 (alternative spelling Elisabeth).

    Elisabeth Peach is my ancestor. The first appearance of Elisabeth that I can find is her 1810 marriage to Anton˙ in Ashby de la Zouch. A witness at her wedding was Martha Handly Peach. I have spent many days at the Leicestershire Records Office searching Parish after Parish for her Christening - but I have yet to find her, and I am starting to think that she was possibly born in a neighbouring County. I have joined this forum in the hopes that someone has found something which might indicate which Parish of which County is where Elisabeth was born, or where in England the parents of Martha were married.

  2. #2
    gasser
    Guest

    Default

    A general google search has brought up an Elizabeth Peach b. 10 Jan 1791 in Stapenhill Derbyshire and this Elizabeth married Anthony Joseph Hoffman [who was born in 1773 in Germany] Their marriage was 14 May 1810 in Ashby de la Zouch. Any use?

  3. #3
    David_H
    Guest

    Default

    This is the wrong Elizabeth. The correct date of birth would be 1786 or 1787. The age of Elizabeth Hoffman (née Peach) is stated to be 60 on her death certificate of 3 April 1847 – and this is the basis of the 1786 estimate. The Parish burial records confirm that her age really was 60. Although information at this time is not always 100% accurate, it is quite beyond me to doubt the accuracy of the age on the Death Certificate. Her Dutch husband who survived her was educated and intelligent. His name was Anton˙ and he was a former non-commissioned officer in the Army (presumably the Dutch army) he ran a Hatting business, was treasurer of the local sick club and he left behind some of the poetry that he wrote. Anthon˙ would certainly have known how old was his wife. He would know when and how to celebrate her 60th birthday which was evidently between 4 April 1786 and 3 April 1787. Anthon˙ wrote the date of his wife's death into the leather bound Bible which already contained the dates of birth of their five children and two of their grandchildren (the date of birth of the third grandchild was entered into the Bible in Anthon˙'s handwriting on or shortly after 16 July 1848). Anton˙ Joseph Hoffmann is the correct spelling it is exactly how he signed his name on the wedding cetificate. He was not German but was Dutch. He was probably born in 1772 although 1773 is possible but less likely.
    Last edited by David_H; 17-09-2012 at 3:54 PM. Reason: Correcting Antoni to Anthon˙

  4. #4
    gasser
    Guest

    Default

    That's unfortunate...as the owner of that tree mentions personal information and notes too. Perhaps it may be an idea to try contact ?
    In the meantime ...I'll keep looking. I like a mystery !!
    ps did he die about 3 years after his wife? If so, this is too much of a co-incidence.
    Last edited by gasser; 17-09-2012 at 4:04 PM. Reason: added ps

  5. #5
    pottoka
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David_H View Post
    This is the wrong Elizabeth. The correct date of birth would be 1786 or 1787. The age of Elizabeth Hoffman (née Peach) is stated to be 60 on her death certificate of 3 April 1847; and this is the basis of the 1786 estimate. The Parish burial records confirm that her age really was 60. Although information at this time is not always 100% accurate, it is quite beyond me to doubt the accuracy of the age on the Death Certificate. Her Dutch husband who survived her was educated and intelligent. His name was Anton˙ and he was a former non-commissioned officer in the Army (presumably the Dutch army) he ran a Hatting business, was treasurer of the local sick club and he left behind some of the poetry that he wrote. Anthon˙ would certainly have known how old was his wife.
    If you don't have a baptismal entry for this Elizabeth, you cannot know for sure that she was 60 when she died. Her husband may have been as intelligent as all-get-out, but if his wife told him she was 22 when he met her, for example, when, in fact she was actually 25 or 26, how was he going to find out? Would he have doubts if he was in love with her?

    Antony would have given her age for the death certificate and for the PRs, so they are not corroborating evidence.

  6. #6
    David_H
    Guest

    Default

    Elizabeth died 3 April 1847 and was buried 7 April 1847. Anthon˙ died 12 March 1851 and was buried 16 March 1851. I don't see where is the coincidence.

    If the owner of that tree had any personal information and notes, he would have given the information that I have given. He is one of many Family Tree owners who have by heresay read what others have written and which was creatively obtained by those who found the impressive 2,819 person gedcom that was the research work of Frank Brocklehurst (probably the late Frank Brocklehurst) and submitted by Frank Brocklehurst to Ancestry.co.uk on or just after 15 January 2001. What has happened between 2001 and today is that the children (all born in the 18th Century) of Thomas Peach and Elizabeth Heape have been posthumously "married" to total strangers simply to gratify the wishes of twenty-first Century Family Tree authors to expand their genealogical claims on the past. And then others have copied this false information, but copied this information in the belief that it was true. Therefore the owner of that tree you have found is honest and sincere (except for saying that he had personal information and notes).

  7. #7
    gasser
    Guest

    Default

    I think your argument is with them and not myself.
    There are vague similarities in your own knowledge and the owner of the site I found. Where they got the information from I have no idea. I did not see the name Brocklehurst mentioned, although I'm not saying it isn't.
    Personally, if it were my family I'd get in touch and ask, politely of course.
    Good luck.

  8. #8
    David_H
    Guest

    Default

    I certainly have no quarrel with you gasser.
    When I compare my knowledge with that of the owner of the site that you so helpfully found, I am immediately struck by the three spelling differences between
    "Anthony Joseph Hoffman"
    and

    which is the signature of AJH

    I am very sorry - I still cannot get images to appear - the URL is
    https://www.h1932.com/AJH_1/
    please click it to see the signature

    (Can someone please explain how to get images into postings?)

  9. #9
    Jan1954
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David_H View Post
    (Can someone please explain how to get images into postings?)
    Have a read of this.

  10. #10
    gasser
    Guest

    Default

    Just to inform you, David, his death registration at Ashby de la Zouch Mar qtr 1851 vol 15 pg. 4.
    shows his name as being Anthony Joseph Hoffman It is quite easy for records (and people's notes) to show his name as
    Anthony - a fact we should be prepared to accept

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