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  1. #1
    gemmaallen1977
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    Default Divorce? Annulment? Declared Dead?

    Hello

    Wondering if anyone could help/advise me on a situation regarding my great grandmother. She was born Elizabeth May Todd (in Woolwich) in September 1902 and married a ? (first name unknown) Collins in Woolwich in September 1923 with a son Charles Collins being born December 1924. Apparently her husband was a soldier in the barracks at Woolwich and (not sure when) he disappeared and apparently was not heard of again.... leaving Elizabeth with a baby/young child on her own. But she then met Charles Randall and several children with him from abt 1928 although they didn't marry until 1943 in Woolwich. On the marriage certificate Elizabeth is listed as a widow... I'm wondering how I can possibly find out more about her first marriage and if she really did become a widow how would she have known her first husband had died if nobody knew where he was? Would she have been granted a divorce/annulment and if so could I possibly find out about it without knowing all the specific details? On talking to my uncle he seemed to think that her first husband, Collins, might have been declared dead? Would love to hear from anybody with any suggestions/advice - Many thanks, Gemma

  2. #2
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
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    After not hearing from her husband for seven years she was free to re-marry.

    If her husband had gone overseas and she knew he was still alive she would still be free to marry after seven years because he was overseas.
    Cheers
    Guy
    As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

  3. #3
    Nicolina
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    Elizabeth M. TODD married Charles COLLINS Dec 1923 Woolwich Vol 1d Page 2200

  4. #4
    Nicolina
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    given the year of her second marriage, it is possible that Charles died in WW2.

  5. #5
    Jan1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolina View Post
    given the year of her second marriage, it is possible that Charles died in WW2.
    In which case there is a death of a Charles COLLINS on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, who died 27th February 1941 and who is commemorated at Shorncliffe Military Cemetery: https://www.
    cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2655218/COLLINS,%20CHARLES%20CECIL

    No telling if this is your chap, but maybe his military records would give you a few clues.

  6. #6
    gemmaallen1977
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    Dear Guy, Nicolina and Jan

    Thank all so much for your helpful advice and suggestions - These are all very positive leads and I am going to look at all of them, thank you so much. I appreciate your help with this Gemma

  7. #7
    Nicolina
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    without knowing how old he was it is hard to narrow him down. If you were to get the marriage certificate it might give his age, or if not his father's name which could help find him in the Census.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2004
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    Kent
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    You do need certificates. The more sticky the problem, the more you need.

    Without the benefit of knowing many names, my reading of the GRO indexes suggests that the Randall/Todd children were all legitimised in a bumper bundle in 1945 (see the Legitimacy Act of 1926). Is that right?

    My understanding of the law as it was at that time is that neither parent should have been married to someone else at the time of the birth.

    If that's right the mother surely ought to have been widowed or divorced by the time the first child was born.

  9. #9
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    Have you not got the Todd/Collins marriage certificate? You need it for the husband's name, father, age and occupation. You can use the reference number that Nicolina provided to order it.

  10. #10
    gemmaallen1977
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    Hi Peter

    Thanks for your post (and to all who had previously posted). I have now ordered the Marriage Certificate – I must be keeping the GRO busy with the amount of certificates I’ve ordered recently! To be completely honest I only really found out about this whole situation properly in July of this year, it was something that wasn’t ever discussed until I started asking questions at a family party and unfortunately the people that I can still ask don’t know very much either. Until recently I had been researching other lines of my tree and so I wasn’t aware of any of this until I couldn’t find a marriage between a Todd and Randall!

    Also I didn’t even know that the children’s births might have been re-registered until I read your reply and I will definitely look at this tonight and hopefully the Marriage Certificate will provide further clues as to what happened to Charles and why he disappeared and her second marriage.

    Once again many thanks to you and everybody else for their advice and assistance with this, much appreciated.

    Gemma

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