Rosa E Daines & Bertie S Howlett - descendant

[madscrapper]

Looking for children of Rosa E Daines b ~ 1908 Bethnal Green England (daughter of Rosa Bunch and Charles Daines) married Bertie S Howlett 1928, West Ham Essex Can anyone help me?
thanks
Janet

[Pam Downes]

Hi Janet,
Welcome to Brit-Gen.

Birth registrations in England and Wales after September quarter 1911 give the mother's maiden name in the GRO Index. So in your case, search for Howlett, with a mother's maiden name of Daines.
If you have a sub to one of the major sites such as Findmypast or Ancestry, they have the GRO Index up to 2006. Alternatively, there is FreeBMD https://
freebmd.rootsweb.com/ which is still a work in progess, but which has quite good coverage of births up to 1954 apart from a few years in the early 1940s. (If you click on 'information', then scroll down to 'statistics', you'll find coverage charts.)

I searched on FreeBMD, and found four entries between 1928 and 1950. Depwade (the registration district) would seem relevant to Bertie's place of birth, and therefore most probably where he grew up, and had a job and therefore where he and Rosa lived after their marriage. Unless you could make an educated guess where they lived, and therefore where the children might have been baptised so you could find entries in the parish registers, the only way you can prove that those four births in the GRO index are Bertie and Rosa's children is to send for the birth certificates. The most convenient way for you is to order direct from the GRO. If you want to know how, yell.

If you don't know about FreeBMD, clicking on the registration district takes you to link which lists the parishes in the district. Clicking on a page number will give you a list of peolpe on the same page (very handy when you're checking pre-1912 marriages). While a final click on the 'specs' on the right-hand side of the entry will give you a link to the image the FreeBMD transcription has been taken from so you can confirm that the district, volume and page number are correct.

I have not given any names I found in my search as forum rules forbid the posting of names of living people.

ETA: I've checked the full GRO Index, and the four birth registrations on FreeBMD would seem to be the lot.

Pam

[Mutley]

So does this 1911 census entry from Depwade, Norfolk fit into the plot?
Samuel Howlett (a grocer) with wife Minnie married 16 years had four children, one had died.
With them were Wilfred 1897, Bertie 1904 and Ernest 1899. (All born Depwade)

1911: RG14, Piece Number 11457, Schedule Number 1, (records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[madscrapper]

Thank you for your insight Pam. I wasn't thinking Bertie's side for location, I kept thinking that Bertie & Rosa had married in West Ham Essex so I checked those. I spoke with family of the one listed in West Ham and learned it was a different Daines. So I will check further into the Depwade entries.

[madscrapper]

Thank you Mutley. It must be the way I'm holding my mouth today that I'm not finding the census entry. Mind you I just checked on Ancestry not the official 1911 site. Thank you. Every little bit helps.
Janet

[Mutley]

Thank you Mutley. It must be the way I'm holding my mouth today that I'm not finding the census entry. Mind you I just checked on Ancestry not the official 1911 site. Thank you. Every little bit helps.
Janet

I must be holding my mouth in the same way because I cannot find them on there either.
They are there in 1901 before Bertie was born.
RG13/1864, Folio 91, Page 10
(records held by TNA, Crown copyright)

[Pam Downes]

Come along, girls, and pay attention - which is obviously more than you've previously been doing.

It's a well-known fact that Ancestry have not yet finished indexing the 1911 census, and it's been mentioned several times on BG that Norfolk is one of the imcomplete counties.
I think all the images are onsite, but you have to follow a bit of a long-winded way to access them.

First of all, go to the relevant country and select the summary books.
Then enter surname only, and (for the purpose of this search) keeping everything crossed that the family are still living in Bunwell (as in 1901) enter Depwade in the registration district box. Click search.
Scroll down the list for any Howletts in Bunwell. As there aren't many, start with the first one, and click 'view record' on left-hand side.
Make a note of the household schedule number and the registration district number.

Now you have to go back to the 1911 page and select England census.
From the dropdown boxes on the right-hand side. select Norfolk, Bunwell, and enumeration district 03.
You get an image, and from the 'banner' across the top you need to go to an image number. It's usually double the schedule number you found in the search, possibly one either side. Based on the first Howell living in Bunwell listed in the summary books, his schedule number was 1, so in this case just go to the next image. (If his schedule number had been 56, then you would enter image 112, though you might actually need image number 113.)

There is a short-cut. If someone gives you the whole 1911 census number e.g. RG14PN17997 RG78PN891 RD280 SD3 ED3 SN1, then when you look in the summary books and 'view record' if you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll find a piece number given. If that is the same as the PN number after the RG78 then you have the right person.

I do hope this is all as plain as mud.

Pam

[Mutley]

I do hope this is all as plain as mud.

So that's why I couldn't find it, too much mud!

[madscrapper]

So I followed through on your instructions, thank you for that, and because of this census search, I started to consider that this Rosa E Daines might not be the correct one. There were several Rosa Daines and a couple of Rosa E Daines. I returned to the 1911 census where I first found Rosa listed with her parents and a brother. She was born in Bethnal Green. Searching for Bertie S Howlett using the Depwade recommendation. I realized that there was a Rosa E Daines born pretty much the same time period who was also born in the Depwade area. Tracking their relationship brought me to the realization that it was most likely this Rosa E Daines who married Bertie S Howlett and not my Rosa E Daines born Bethnal Green. So I thank you for your suggestions and assistance, which helped to change my direction in my Rosa E Daines research.