parentage of Benjamin Thwing

[jspfeifle]

My name is Jathan Pfeifle, 12th generation descendant of Benjamin Thwing, b. abt. 1619, London. Benjamin emigrated to America in 1635 on the ship "The Susan and Ellen" as an apprentice to Ralph Hudson. Benjamin married in 1642 (in Boston) Deborah (Savage?).

I have been trying to locate Benjamin's parents without much success. Some people list his parents as John and Helen (Watts) Thwing, of Kingston-Upon Hull, Yorkshire, which (as far as I have veen able to ascertain is unprovable--at this point in time). Their daughter, Mary (wife of Ralph Hudson)was the daughter of Helen Thwing and the step-daughter of John Thwing of Kingston-Upon-Hull in Yorkshire County.

A cousin of mine living in Massachusetts has done some research in this area and discovered tht both John and Helen died before Benjamin sailed for America and neither party listed Benjamin in their wills, which he has obtained copies of. However, since the wills are (according to him) "extremely difficult to read" he has relied on an article published in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register by John G. Hunt titled: “The Maternal Ancestry of Hudson Leverett (1640-94): Hudson, Thwing and Watts,” in addition to his own research.

The following is some more of the information which my cousin has come up with as a result of his research:

In John’s will he mentions his sons Nicholas, George, Joseph, and daughters Judith, married to Robert Berior, and daughter Rachel, married to John Perke. He also mentions his cousin Margaret Thwing. He does not mention Mary but does call Ralph Hudson his son-in-law. Helen’s will mentions sons Roger Watts, George and Joseph Thwing, daughters Cecilie, married to Francis Peacocke, and Marie, married to Ralph Hudson. She also mentions several grandchildren. An interesting mention is for 20 shillings to “my maid servant Alice Thwing.” The will of their eldest son Joseph mentions his son John and daughter Mary, brother Nicholas, and wife Rebecca. Since John’s will mentions Nicholas, Judith and Rachel while Helen’s does not we can assume that John was also married before.
Based on their wills we can assume the following:

John Thwing married first _____ and second Helen ____ who was previously married to ____ Watts.
Children of John Thwing and ________
1. Nicholas Thwing
2. Judith Thwing married Robert Berior
3. Rachel Thwing married John Perke

Children of Helen ___ and ____Watts
1. Roger Watts
2. Cecilie Watts married Francis Peacocke
a. Grace Peacocke
b. Thomas Peacocke
c. William Peacocke
d. Jane Peacocke
3. Mary (Watts) Thwing married Ralph Hudson
a. Hannah Hudson
b. Mary Hudson

Children of John Thwing and Helen Watts
1. Joseph Thwing married Rebecca _____
a. John Thwing
b. Mary Thwing
2. George Thwing


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My question dilemma is this: Who are the parents of Benjamin Thwing, b. abt 1619? What is the connection of Between Benjamin Thwing and John and Helen (Watts) Thwing? How is Benjamin related to Mary Thwing, wife of Ralph Hudson (I seem to remember that Mary is his half-sister, but how)? any information or clues would be much appreciated.

Jathan Pfeifle
(California)

[Geoffers]

My name is Jathan Pfeifle, 12th generation descendant of Benjamin Thwing, b. abt. 1619, London. Benjamin emigrated to America in 1635 on the ship "The Susan and Ellen" as an apprentice to Ralph Hudson. Benjamin married in 1642 (in Boston) Deborah (Savage?).

First off, do make sure that the research back to this chap is accurate, I mention this because I am aware of some folks just having used a privately published book as the basis of their information and the book has turned out to be mostly a work of fiction - I hate to see anyone wasting valuable money and time on following a wrong line.

Asuming that everything has been accurately researched, what is the source for the estimated year of birth for your chap?

Did he emigrate alone?

What record do you have of the apprenticeship? I would expect an indenture from this period to include the father's name.

Some people list his parents as John and Helen (Watts) Thwing, of Kingston-Upon Hull, Yorkshire

Any idea on what gronds they have them as parents?

Kingston-Upon-Hull in Yorkshire County.

It's just Yorkshire, not Yorkshire county.

However, since the wills are (according to him) "extremely difficult to read"

If you can scan the wills and put them online somewhere, we can have a go at reading them for you.

He does not mention Mary but does call Ralph Hudson his son-in-law

Son-in-law does not always have the same meaning as it does today.

I would expect Thwing to be a name from the north or east of England.

TNA's documents online has this PCC will for John THWING dated 1658

TNA's catalogue has 33 hits for a search of 'thw*ng 1550-1670'

Access to Archives is a powerful search engine which may bring up some results in looking for records relating to the name - do bear in mind that in just searchng for the surname, it wll bring up hits for the place of the same name.

[jspfeifle]

Geoffers,

First of all, thank you for your reply and information you have provided. I appreciate it immensely.

My lineage back to Benjamin Thwing is quite well established. and verifiable from multiple records. I have also traced the line from multiple records online but from as many authoritative sources such as census records/church records/city registers which I can find. Not only have multiple lines of the family traced their lineage back to Benjamin Thwing, b. abt. 1619, but Menjamin is known to be (through reliable published resources "the original Thwing in America," from whom the vast majority of Thwings/Twings are descended (There is also a book written in 1883 by Walter Eliot Thwing onthe family THWING: a genealogical, biographical,and historical account of the family (available online at https://www.google.com/books?id=ZhNWA...:+a+historical which chronicles the family back to 1635. Also Benjamim was one of the Pioneers/early settlers of Boston, Massachusetts and quite involved, being at one time a selectman, so there is a fair amount written on him and his family. (The bove-mentioned book has some information on the apprenticeship of Benjamin on view page 16). This book traces the line directly down to s my great grandfather, charles Samuel Twing (the eldest child of individual #269 in this book).

You ask who lists John and Helen as parents of Benjamin?
well for one, the LDS Church has John and Helen listed. Other than this I cannot remember offhand.

I will check with my cousin and see what I can do regarding the will and get back with more info concerning it at a later date.

From my research, I have discovered that the Thweng family in England, was in fact in the East Riding area and was quite prominent family, being related to and associated with the de Brus, de Ros, de Lumley, de Percy, Lancaster families, as well as several kings of England, and that some of them were knights and Lords and held at one time Kilton Castle as well as a few others.

However, as I have as yet been unable to connect these Thwengs (and related spellings) to my Benjamin as I have been unable to verify who his parents were or find a birth record for him. I would love to find this information as it woudl be a big missing piece in the puzzle of my larger family. Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from more people in Britain or interested in/researching these names or any related names.

Jathan

[Geoffers]

My lineage back to Benjamin Thwing is quite well established. and verifiable from multiple records.

Fair enough, so long as you are happy. I only mentioned it as I have occasionally been in contact with people who claim to have researched a family history and in fact they have just read some work of fiction which doesn't stand up to scrutiny and it is so disappointing for them.

I have also traced the line from multiple records online but from as many authoritative sources such as census records/church records/city registers which I can find.

Good, original records are needed to establish facts - though of course multiple online transcripts may just repeat multiple online mistakes.

(There is also a book written in 1883 by Walter Eliot Thwing onthe family THWING: a genealogical, biographical,and historical account of the family

Do check that this book contains source references which can be verified

You ask who lists John and Helen as parents of Benjamin? well for one, the LDS Church has John and Helen listed

A word of caution - In your shoes I would be wary here, I would not accept mormon (LDS) church records as reliable or proof.

I will check with my cousin and see what I can do regarding the will and get back with more info concerning it at a later date.

I and I am sure others, would be happy to help if we can - many enjoy the challenge of interpreting these documents.

From my research, I have discovered that the Thweng family in England, was in fact in the East Riding area

That would not surprise me, it would seem to be a locative surname.

However, as I have as yet been unable to connect these Thwengs (and related spellings) to my Benjamin as I have been unable to verify who his parents were or find a birth record for him.

A birth record is unlikely, you might get a baptism.

As this was a land owning family there are other sources that you might try, but access to them from America is difficult, the types of record include Inquisitions Post Mortem, Licences to Alienate, Fines, Petitions, Recoveries, etc. I commend the National Archives research guides to you as good reading over a cuppa to get an idea of the type and scope of documents available. TNA even has palaeography and Latin tutorials which may help with these early documents.

Have you tried any visitations to see if there is a recorded genealogy?

You mentioned that your chap was bn c.1619 in London. Was he definitely born there, or did he just emigrate from London? How has someone calculated his approximate year of birth?

[jspfeifle]

Fair enough, so long as you are happy. I only mentioned it as I have occasionally been in contact with people who claim to have researched a family history and in fact they have just read some work of fiction which doesn't stand up to scrutiny and it is so disappointing for them.



Good, original records are needed to establish facts - though of course multiple online transcripts may just repeat multiple online mistakes.

[/I]

Do check that this book contains source references which can be verified



A word of caution - In your shoes I would be wary here, I would not accept mormon (LDS) church records as reliable or proof.



I and I am sure others, would be happy to help if we can - many enjoy the challenge of interpreting these documents.



That would not surprise me, it would seem to be a locative surname.



A birth record is unlikely, you might get a baptism.

As this was a land owning family there are other sources that you might try, but access to them from America is difficult, the types of record include Inquisitions Post Mortem, Licences to Alienate, Fines, Petitions, Recoveries, etc. I commend the National Archives research guides to you as good reading over a cuppa to get an idea of the type and scope of documents available. TNA even has palaeography and Latin tutorials which may help with these early documents.

Have you tried any visitations to see if there is a recorded genealogy?

You mentioned that your chap was bn c.1619 in London. Was he definitely born there, or did he just emigrate from London? How has someone calculated his approximate year of birth?

I just found this information on ancestry on my Benjamin

Link deleted

Millennium File
about Benjamin Thwing
Name: Benjamin Thwing
Spouse: , Deborah
Birth Date: 1619
Birth City: Kingston-On-Hull
Birth County: Yorks
Birth Country: England
Death Date: 1672
Death City: Boston
Death County: Suffolk
Death State: Massachusetts
Death Country: USA
Parents: John Thwing, Helen
Children: John Thwing
Other information: Notes


NOTES: Benjamin Thwing
Life Events
Birth: Abt 1619
Birth Place: Kingston-On-Hull, Yorks, Eng
Death: 1672
Death Place: Boston, Suffolk, MA

Miscellaneous Information
Gender: M (Male)

Source Information:
Heritage Consulting. Millennium File [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2003. Original data: Heritage Consulting. The Millennium File. Salt Lake City, UT, USA: Heritage Consulting.

Description:
The Millennium File is a database created by the Institute of Family Research to track the records of its clients and the results of its professional research. It contains more than 880,000 linked family records, with lineages from throughout the world, including colonial America, the British Isles, Switzerland, and Germany. One of the focuses of the Millennium File is linking to European nobility and royalty. Learn more...
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I don't know about the dependency of this ancestry.com information nor its source, but it gives a more specific location for the birth of Benjamin. Looking forward to finding our more on my family line.

Jathan

[Geoffers]

Name: Benjamin Thwing
Birth Date: 1619
Birth City: Kingston-On-Hull
Parents: John Thwing, Helen
NOTES: Benjamin Thwing
Life Events
Birth: Abt 1619
Birth Place: Kingston-On-Hull, Yorks, Eng

Okedoke - as no original source is given for the above, you now need to prove it by use of parish registers or the annual copy made and returned to the Archdeacon or Bishop (known as either Archdeacon's Transcript - AT or Bishop's Transcript - BT)

GENUKI is a good place to look for background information - this page shows that it has two historic parishes

You may be able to hire copies of registers via a mormon church (LDS) record centre.

Do make use of the Access to Archives search engine.

Hull City Archives may hold some records
Parish registers are held by East RIding Archives and Local Studies

[Carol Holden]

In searching the internet, I came across a site entitled United Kingdom - b 1570 - Thwing Family. Clicking on this takes you to My Treed.com. Click on Births/Christenings for Benjamin Thwing b 1619 and you will get a list of documents which reflect John and Helen as his parents. I am unable to view the documents as I do not have a membership (I have a World membership in Ancestry.com and don't want to pay for another). I'm hoping you can access that database and actually view the documents. Will you let me know? There are so many variations of the last names in this family. I think John Thwing married Helen Sawer, who also married William Watts. I we are to believe John and Helen married in 1593 (per many Ancestry tree) she would have been 20 so her marriage to William would have to be later?? This date may not be correct however. I hope this might help you