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  1. #1
    Loves to help with queries
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    Default Thomas & Elizabeth Morgan

    It's been a while since I've been here but since hitting brickwalls all over the family, I decided to try and find out more about my "interesting" folks.
    Thomas Morgan was born 1801 in Llanfechen Montgomeryshire, he married Elizabeth (?) born 1801 in Llanymanddwy, Merionethshire. Thomas died in 1884 in Llanfyllin, Llanfechen, Montgomeryshire
    Acc. to the Welsh 1851 census: Occ. Agriculture labourer.
    Acc. to 1881 census. 80 year old, still married to Elizabeth. Occ. molecatcher pauper.Residing in Squennant Fach.
    I loved that they where still alive at 80 and Thomas' occupation of molecatcher was just funny.
    Can anyone help me find out more about Thomas, also about the place he lived and died?

    Thanks in advance
    Shay

  2. #2
    pippycat
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    Familysearch has no marriages for Thomas Morgan to Elizabeth in Merioneth 1825-1845.

    Only 2 for Montgomery in same time span:

    Thomas Morgan and Elizabeth Evans
    marr: 14 May 1833 Llanidloes, Montgomery

    Thomas Morgan and Elizabeth Owen
    marr: 27 June 1834 Llanidloes, Montgomery


    I have some baps for Llanidloes, (Zion non-conform) Montgomery 1816-1837
    and listed on those are:

    Anne Morgan bap. 14 Nov 1834
    Thos Morgan bap. 19 July 1836

    both to parents: Thos Morgan and Elizth Owen.
    (nothing on my list for Thomas and Eliz Evans)

    Not sure if this will be of any help to you though!

    Rebecca

    Added: Can you give the census references for Thomas please
    Last edited by pippycat; 03-03-2012 at 8:59 PM. Reason: added question

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks for the reply Rebecca
    In the information I meant that Elizabeth was born in Merioneth, not that they married there. I don't don't know when or where they wed.
    I've misplaced my files with the census references but I'll get them to you as soon as.
    Here's the info I have of their children:
    Elinor b. 1829 Llanfechen
    John 1830 Llanfechen
    Thomas 1832 Llansaintaffraid
    William 1833 Llansaintaffraid
    Ann 1837 Llansaintaffraid
    Jane 1839 Llansaintaffraid
    Elizabeth 1840 Llansaintaffraid
    Evan 1844 Llansaintaffraid

    This was according to the Welsh 1851 census
    Thanks again
    Shay

  4. #4
    pippycat
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    Shay I have the census for 1851 (p2499 f458 pg3) so don't worry.

    The reason I searched Merioneth for marriages is because that would be the County for Elizabeth and they may have wed in her parish there....however, they didn't, unless, of course there is 3rd Morgan family!

    Thomas Morgan married Elizabeth Owen 27 June 1834, Llanidloes, Montg.

    Thomas Morgan married Elizabeth Evans 14 May 1833 Lanidloes, Montg.

    I found a birth for Anne Morgans b 21 Feb 1837 Congregational, Meifod, Montgomery
    parents: Thomas Morgans and Elizabeth Evans..from familysearch..so it could tie in with Ann from 1851 census, but not set in concrete.

    Births:

    John Morgan christ. 4 July 1830 Lanfechain
    Jane Morgan b 28 Oct 1838 Llansaintffraid
    Evan christ. 25 Apr 1844 Llansaintffraid

    Elizabeth christ. 22 Feb 1835 Llanfechain - this is a bit early for the 1851 census age, but I can't find a more suitable one born 1841 - so this Elizabeth may well belong to a different family.

    I notice you have included Elinor, Thomas and William but they are not listed on the 1851 census with Thomas and Elizabeth.

    For either of the above Evans/Owen marriages then Elinor b Nov 1828 Llanfechain, Thomas b Nov 1831 Llanfechain are a wee bit early and William b Apr 1833 Llanfechain is born just before 'Evans' wed in May 1833 but fits for ''Owen marriage in 1834 - so, how do you know for sure these 3 children belong to your family?

    Remember the 2 previous baps I gave you for Ann b1834 and Thomas 1836 are to Thomas and Elizabeth Owen...who wed in 1834...William could belong in this family.

    I would take great care with this because there are 2 (maybe more!) families with the same names, in the same area at the same time!

    Complicated, unless you have other info that may possibly help sort them out?

    Rebecca

  5. #5
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    Default

    Once again thank you. I don't remember where I got ALL the kids names from, I thought it was the census, it could be some of my other relatives "twice removed" who gave em those names. I'll have to take it easy and go slowly through the paper work again.
    The Anne Morgans, could be my Ann, same year birth ( I think her birth year was from the English census, when she was married Griffiths). As for John, the date you gave was 3 years before the Evans' marriage. Do you think Thomas could have been married before and that's where the other kids came from. I wonder about this because he was supposedly born in 1801 (the same as Elizabeth) and looking at other marriages 32 seemed pretty old for a first. Maybe they took their time like my 45 year old unmarried brother

    I was also wondering if you could give me some information about the places of birth, are they small villages, do they still exist?

    Once again thanks for the time you are taking to help me.

  6. #6
    pippycat
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    Shay the villages are still in existence.

    If you google Francis Frith there are some old photos of Llansantffraid and Meifod, none for Llanfechain but there are other places nearby where you can see what it used to look like.

    Geograph also has more up to date photo's of these areas.


    A snippet of info for you, Llanfechain:

    1832: opening of national school in village
    1841: highest population of 733 people
    1965: lost its local railway service
    1980: new housing being built in village

    Genuki is also very good for info about these parishes.


    There is a whole bunch of births that could belong to any Morgan family, so for now, I think John must fall into that category!

    Rebecca

  7. #7
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    Default

    Do you have any idea where or what "Squennant Fach" is? This is where Thomas and Elizabeth supposedly resided in the 1881 census.

  8. #8
    pippycat
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    Shay,

    I've seen references to Squenant Meadow and Squenant Barn in llanvechan (Llanfechain) and also some info on deeds relating to properties in the township of Brynkinfelin, parish of Llanfechain where a Thomas Morgan is listed as paying rent of £90 (a John Morgan paying £76 rent) but its not showing an exact address - you would need to get the documents from TNA to see further details on this.
    I think a william Mostyn owned this land originally and sold it off to pay his debts.

    Thread #4: I believe its safe to rule out Elizabeth Owen as wife to your Thomas, he was batchelor, she a spinster when they wed in 1834, so no previous marriage for either of them.
    Also the Zion bapt for Ann 1834 and Thomas 1836 state Owen as the mother - this doesn't match your Ann and Thomas, so goodbye to Elizabeth Owen!

    Not convinced its Thomas with Elizabeth Evans either. Again Batch and Spinster, no previous marriage for either of them.
    They could have wed after the birth of their 3rd child, but that makes no sense, so I think this one is out as well!

    The bap for son John Morgan July 1830 Llanfechain looks promising, especially with the added bonus of his maternal grandparents listed as William and Jane Preece - but that surname has many variations and I've yet to find a marriage for Thomas Morgan to a Preece in either Montgomery or Merioneth. Of course, they could have wed elsewhere.

    I would have liked to find the daughter Elinor/Eleanor b1828, but apart from the bap on familysearch and 1841 Wales census (p1434 f6 pg5) I can't spot her elsewhere.

    Not having much luck!

    Rebecca

  9. #9
    Loves to help with queries
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    Default

    Thanks again Rebecca.
    What is TNA? £90 in rent, is that annual?
    I will be going to the familysearch center in Oslo asap. Maybe we can shed some light on the baps then.
    Shay

  10. #10
    pippycat
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    Shay, TNA = The National Archives

    Don't know about the rent though, the snippets of info are all it shows - more indepth details could be in the document itself.

    Rebecca

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