Proving the stuff you find online?

[Mutley]

Well Coromandel, a huge thanks to you for finding what you have unearthed. You are really good at this.

At the moment, I don't know who I am any more. Well I know who I am now but maybe it is not who I thought I was.

I have come across the Selby-Lowndes on many occasions, they were well to-do, solicitors, MPs and gentry. As far as I am concerned they are not and cannot be connected to my lot of villains and ne'er-do-wells.

I really don't know where to start trying to prove or dis-prove these connections.

I am convinced that my great grandfather was named Christopher Selby 1862 - 1910.
His father, my 2 x g grandfather was Thomas James Selby 1827 - 1906.
His mother and father were John Selby and Alice (nee Walker)
I have all the certificates and all the census that follow the line back.

I believe John and Alice had children.
John 1812. Hannah 1819, Daniel 1815, Alice 1818, Elijah 1821, Thomas James 1827, Sarah 1827?, William 1831, Emma 1833 (this child is in the 1841 census, cannot find her before or after that), and Avis 1833.
(John, Daniel and William went to NSW)

If I can sort it out do you think I can make a claim to Whadden Hall. I shall have to go and google it.

Thanks again.

[Mutley]

Following Kerrywood's lead I have been doing some digging in the newspapers on Trove and came across this most intriguing death announcement. Well, it begins as a death announcement, but then it changes tack...

From the 'Empire' (published in Sydney), 6 May 1869:
'On Sunday, 2nd May Richard Selby Hearth, age eleven years, in consequence of inflammation in the spine brought on by a cut in the foot. This youth was the son of Mr. James Selby Hearth, second son of Mr. John Selby Walker Hearth, of the Glebe Sydney. Mr J.P.W. Hearth, grandfather of the deceased became on the death of his father John Hearth, heir of the estate of Whaddon Hall, in Buckinghamshire. The present Mr. Hearth's great grandfather, William Selby, through whom he claims the estate, was killed in the battle of Minden, in 1759. His daughter, Hannah Selby, was his heir. This lady married Mr. Hearth, and had issue four sons, William, John, Christopher, and Thomas. The first born, William, died, and all his children. John Hearth then became heir, and proved his title in Chancery twenty years ago; he is since dead, and his eldest son, Mr. John Selby Walker Hearth, of the Glebe, Sydney, is therefore the lawful heir to the estate. The Court of Chancery many years ago, appointed a receiver, Mr. Lowndes, who was in due course put in possession by decree of the Court, pending the discovery of the true heir.'

You can't believe everything you read in newspapers, of course, but this might give some new leads.

I am attempting to understand the change in tack on this one.

William Selby was killed in the battle of Midden in 1759
He had a son, John Selby Walker Hearth, heir of Whadden Hall
Someone had a daughter Hannah Selby (she was a heir) who married a Mr. Hearth (?), they had sons William, John, Christopher and Thomas. William and all his children died so John became heir.

James Selby Hearth of the Glebe, Sydney was the second son of somebody (also a heir) and he was the father of the child Richard that died by inflammation of the spine when he cut his foot.

If you go back over some of my old threads you will find that I often referred to three brothers, John, Elijah and Christopher as the Brothers Grimm. Little did I know then that their ancestors also wrote fairy tales.

[Mutley]

I've found the thread regarding my John that went on a Bounty ship to NSW.
He was born in 1812.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/for...ghlight=bounty

So if he was a heir does that make me one also?

[Coromandel]

Hi Mutley, or perhaps I should say Ma'am

This is how I interpret the family tree as described in the death notice for Richard Selby Hearth:

..........................William
.......................... Selby
........................ (d.1759)
.............................|
Mr Hearth === Hannah Selby
................... |
..---------------------------------------------------------------------
..|....................|.....................|........................|
William ........ John ......... Christopher ........ Thomas
...................Hearth
..................(m. Alice)
........................|
...............John Selby
.............Walker Hearth
...........(a.k.a. John Selby)
.............d.1890, Glebe

How William Selby at the top of the tree is supposed to be connected to Thomas James Selby of Whaddon isn't clear.

The online trees for the Australian Selbys/Hearths suggest that 'Mr Hearth' was Christopher Hearth. This post on another forum is interesting:

https://
boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/11129/mb.ashx?pnt=1

as it refers to an 1812 letter which may be a crucial bit of evidence. Perhaps you could try contacting the person who posted this message?

[Mutley]

Thanks Coromandel,

I think the 'ole Mut' will be remaining a mut, does not look as if I can claim the title of Ma'am

I've spent a couple of days following your links and trawling the internet. I have also made contact with others though I have yet to see the 1812 letter.

The contacts have given me some new information that I need to verify. Some information that I did know and some I disagree with.

A work in progress methinks.

Thanks again, you have helped considerably.

[lizone]

Information on the Hearth/Selby family from the Sheffield records as follows:

Marriage 1
Christopher Hearth otp bachelor marrried Ann Selby otp spinster by banns
Sheffield St Peter Parish Church (now Cathedral) 22 Jan 1776
Christopher Hearth signed clearly, Ann Selby made her mark
Witnesses - Francis Oxley, Matthew Newson, John Lune all signed

Marriage 2
Christopher Hearth otp widower marrried Ann Hudson otp widow by banns
Sheffield St Peter Parish Church (now Cathedral) 04 Nov 1792
Christopher Hearth and Ann Hudson both signed clearly
Witnesses - Jno Wilkinson and Sarah Wilkinson (or Mallinson?) signed

Marriage 3
Christopher Hearth otp widower marrried Mary Barker otp widow by banns
Sheffield St Peter Parish Church (now Cathedral) 09 Jun 1794
Christopher Hearth signed clearly, Mary Barker made her mark
Witnesses - Jo Epworth (witness to other marrriages on the page) and John Hall signed

Baptisms (all Sheffield St Peter Parish Church):
James s/o Christopher Hearth, Papermaker, bap 27 Dec 1776
Nancy d/o Christopher and Ann Hearth, Papermaker, bap 01 Nov 1788
Mary d/o Christopher and Ann Hearth, Papermaker, bap 15 May 1780
John s/o Christopher and Ann Harth, Papermaker, bap 16 Jun 1782
Christopher s/o Christopher and Ann Hearts, Papermaker, bap 08 Feb 1784 (Attercliffe Chapel)
Hannah d/o Christopher and Ann Hearth, Papermaker, bap 16 Apr 1786 (Attercliffe Chapel)
William s/o Christopher and Ann Hearth, Papermaker, bap 28 Dec 1788 (Attercliffe Chapel)
Ann d/o Christopher and Ann Hearth, Papermaker, bap 06 Feb 1792 (Attercliffe Chapel)

Burials (all Attercliffe Chapelry):
Ann w/o Christopher Heath, Papermaker, 06 Feb 1792
Ann d/o Christopher Heath, Papermaker, 10 Feb 1792
Ann w/o Christopher Heath, 09 Dec 1793
No other Hearth burials from 1788 - 1812

So, Christopher Hearth did indeed marry three times. He also appeared to have another daughter, Sarah, with his third wife Mary in 1795 in Stannington, just outside Sheffield towards Bradfield (where his son Christopher seems to get married in 1805 and then moves to Peterborough?).

Christopher Hearth (senior) does appear in the Sheffield Papermakers book, but he is simply listed with about forty other papermakers as living in the vicinity of the Brightside Paper Mills. He does not appear in the Sketchley Directory of Sheffield of 1774 or Directory of Sheffield for 1787 or 1797. There seems to be no other Hearth family being baptised, married or buried in Sheffield at this time.

Onto John Hearth/Selby, there appears to be no marriage in 1810 or years either side in the Sheffield area to an 'Alice' (and Attercliffe did not conduct marriage ceremonies until a much date). There seem to be no likely Hearth or Selby marriages in Sheffield itself after 1800, supported by Christopher (senior)'s move to Stannington/Bradfield? I note on IGI that a John Hearth did also marry in Bradfield in 1817 which may be worth looking at?

Finally, there is no likely evidence of Christopher Hearth's or Ann Selby's baptisms in Sheffield itself, nor any other Hearth or Selby baptisms around 1740s/1750s.

Perhaps all of this really hasn't proved anything - but it's interesting that there's no real evidence of any of the family post-1810 in the Sheffield area and Christopher Hearth (junior) did seem to move to Peterborough?

Liz

[greybird]

Do be careful with online trees. Early on in my researches I was given a full tree in my own family going back to 1545. Delighted as I was, I later realised the importance of checking all the information for myself. I duly started checking back and proved much of it, but when I got back several generations, there was only one possibility for one ancestor, but he was from a different part of Cornwall from the more recent ones and there was nothing to prove one way or another whether he was the right one.

The Australian tree that the information came from was, on closer reading, full of "probablys" and "must have beens". They may well have got the right person (and from him, back in time the information certainly seems correct), but I can't help wondering if another tree had been grafted on in error. I know that there are pages missing from some of the Cornish Parish Registers so I can't see that it can ever be proved.

[Mutley]

Thank you so much Liz. That information is such a fantastic help.

Seeing as Ann Hearth (nee Selby, wife 1) was buried on 06 Feb 1792 the same day that their daughter Ann was baptised, before she was also buried four days later, I expect that the reason for her death was to do with the birth of baby Ann.

As Ann Hearth (nee Hudson, wife 2) was buried 13 months after their Nov 1792 marriage, that confirms that the baptisms in the register are belonging to Christopher and my Ann.

Where they came from? well that is another question but at least you have answered several of the queries I had.

Thanks again

[Mutley]

Thank you for the advice Greybird. You are quite right.
I have learnt not to add any leaves to my tree unless I know for sure that they grew on it naturally and were not stuck on by a 'must go there somewhere' type.

Seeing as this is a whole branch, well several branches, and the roots as well, I'd better be very very careful.

[stepives]

This site may be helpfull. https://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.lo...erton.html#wha

Selby & Lowndes connections.....plus Whaddon Hall, in Bucks.

Steve.