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  1. #11

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    Hi Mutley and may I thank you for all your research on this. i will try and answer your questions as well as i can.

    Firstly, yes, Florence did have servants - this was when she was married to William Drage so i assume his army pay was good enough to support this quality of living!

    Wilfred Drage was the son of William and was brought into the marriage from his previous marriage to a lady called Lucy who died in an assylum. She was quite young i believe.

    Yes, i have all three marriage certificates and they are all genuine! i think maybe years ago they weren't too fussy about checking backgrounds which is why she was able to put Spinster when marrying Charles London. I knew the children of the second marriage - I was very young but remember Babs and Ethel, Selwyn's half sisters. Neither of them married and they lived together in chester until they died. i believe there was an upset when Charles London died as he left nothing to Selwyn, only his children.

    Lastly, i have a copy of William Drage's Will and it leaves everything to Florence. No mention of Selwyn. I have always thought he died in Chester - all my research points to this. Selwyn and his wife, Doris, settled in chester and that is where my father was born. I actually have William's death certificate which states he died 4th March 1924 aged 64 in Chester.

    All in all I dont think I am ever going to find out who Selwyn's father was. I did find out about a lady who lived in Sutton, Suffolk, who was still alive and knew of the Clarke family. Unfortunately, by the time i got there to visit, she had passed away, taking all the secrets with her!!! So near and yet so far!!!!

    Just to recap Florence had Selwyn by father unknown - Babs (Millicent), Ethel and Charles with Charles London and Madge, Winni, Dorothy, Alan and Ivan with William Drage. I am unsure if Madge was born with Charles London or William, its unclear. Wilfred was born to William before he married Florence. Quite a family!! Alan died at a young age in a motorbike accident. I am actually in touch with Madge's granddaughter who is also researching the family tree.

    Thanks again for all your help in this. I shall be pleased to hear anything else you find out now you have a little more background information.

    Thanks

  2. #12

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    Hi ,me again, thought you might like to see a couple of pictures I have of Florence and Selwyn. The one outside the house is Florence with her servants and Selwyn (the older child) and one of his half brothers. this was on a postcard which was originally sent to William Drage whilst he was abroad. the other picture was taken around 1916 and is of Florence and Selwyn. I have more but would probably take up the whole forum lol. thanks again for your interest...


  3. #13
    Mutley
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    Thank you for the further information. The photographs are wonderful, you are lucky to have them.

    I did wonder if Wilfred was born of an earlier marriage of William's seeing as Charles F London and Wilfred F Drage are both enumerated as born in 1906.

    Seems the probate for William Drage died Jan 1921 with the two sons as Army Colonels is not this William, I thought he was rather old for Florence but do you think he was related to your William?

    If the Madge you are unclear about is Marjorie then there is a birth registered in 1909 in Woodbridge as a Drage. The only one for a Marjorie London is in Windsor, so I doubt she is your lass.

    Good Luck and if I trip over more information I will post again as I did enjoy the search, it was interesting.

  4. #14

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    Hi thanks again for your reply. I don't think the two William's are related - in fact i am not sure if he had any brothers or not. I have found out that he definitely died on the 4th March 1924 aged 54 and he died of bronchitis. He seemed to have always been away from home, even when he died. Quite sad really.

    We were always lead to believe that Madge (Marjorie) belonged to William, but with their chequered history, who knows lol . I have been trying to find any mention online of a Will for charles London dying in 1905 in Tadcaster aged 30 and i did come across a record on Ancestry.com. Maybe one day I will join and see exactly what he did leave behind when he died. Could explain a lot.

    Thanks again for you interest ..I love talking about my family history lol

    Jan

  5. #15
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan47 View Post
    I have been trying to find any mention online of a Will for charles London dying in 1905 in Tadcaster aged 30 and i did come across a record on Ancestry.com. Maybe one day I will join and see exactly what he did leave behind when he died. Could explain a lot.
    I had a look at that entry on Ancestry. It is from the National Probate Calendar for 1905:
    Charles London of 8 Cypress-villas Wakefield-road Garforth Yorkshire died 14 July 1905 Adminstration Wakefield 15 September to Florence Mahala London widow Effects £251 0s. 10d.
    Note that it is not referring to a will, but to a grant of administration.
    (For future reference, you can't see the wills themselves on Ancestry anyway, just short entries with details of when probate was granted. In themselves these can be very informative, but to see the actual wills you need to buy a copy. There are details in other posts.)

    P.S. thanks for posting the photos, it makes so much difference to be able to visualise people!

  6. #16

    Default Clark, Cook, London & Drage... still ongoing

    Hello again Coromandel

    I have just come across my posts again after all these years and want to thank you for finding out some information for me from the National Probate Calendar - very interesting - I have just calculated how much that would be worth today and the site I went to states it is around £21,000.00 so that would leave her very comfortable.

    I am still trying to find out who Selwyn Jared (Florence Mahala's illegitimate son) father is... I have discovered that Florence's sister Mary Ann Clark worked as a domestic in Mayfair London - she married Richard Parkes and had a daughter called Rosamund Bertha Parkes who was 2 years old on the 1901 census... it shows her born in Mayfair, london. It has been suggested to me that Florence went with Mary Ann to London and that, maybe, she became pregnant whilst she was there and was then shipped home to have the baby. That is as far as I have got at the moment but feel if I can find out where Mary Ann worked it might shed some light on the matter. Sadly i have no further leads. Again, a very intriguing life my great grandmother lead!

    Please accept my apologies for suddenly disappearing from here in 2011 and not answering your last post. I just think real life got in the way but now I am finding I have a little more time again to research a bit more

    Hope you are still here on the forum - thanks again

    Jan

  7. #17
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Jan and thank you for returning to BG and updating us on your fascinating family.
    Mutley and Coromandel are no longer members of BG (as indicated by 'guest' under their names) so will not receive notification of your post.

    Now that you have revived it some of our members may also be intrigued by your ancestors and bring fresh eyes to the search.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  8. #18
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi again
    I have just been looking through the censuses at this family and remembering you saying that Florence's sister was in service in London.
    Florence is with her mother Bertha, brother and son Selwyn Jared in 1901 and below her name is a 4 year old nurse child Dorothy Honess age 4 born Mayfair London. Have you investigated her family at all?
    Christina

    Edited to add:- On the new GRO index the mother's maiden name for birth reg of Dorothy Honess is Knatchbull.
    Marriage of Richard Honess to Jane Knatchbull Sept 1/4 1896 Gateshead, Co Durham reg district.
    In 1911 Dorothy is living with Samuel and Sophia Ann Quinton in Chequer Villa, Sutton, Woodbridge, Suffolk as a boarder.
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  9. #19

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    hi there ... thank you so much for your reply

    I never really thought about investigating this family but I was curious as to who Dorothy Honess was. From the information you have found it looks like they weren't actually family members but just "lodgers" of some sort - I really have no idea why people from Co Durham would end up in Sutton, Suffolk.

    I am quite convinced with the theory that Florence went to London with her sister and came back with child - I just have to prove it and that means finding some sort of written evidence of where Florence was a year or so before Selwyn was born.

    I am hoping there may be someone here who can help with my story?

    It is good to be back

    Jan

  10. #20
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi
    I was wondering if Florence may have been working with, near or met Richard Honess in London. The 1901 census says she was born in Mayfair but her birth reg and 1911 say Gateshead, Why would the Clark family give her place of birth as Mayfair?
    Does the name Selwyn appear anywhere else in Florence's family?
    If Florence didn't apply for any monetary help from parish or father I can't see there being a paper trail to establish a father and as Florence is recorded in Sutton in 1901 and 1911 censuses it isn't much help.

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

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