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  1. #11
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    Nobody would refer to a Cathedral district or area before the Cathedral existed!

    If your RC couple were married around the time you say, they would have had to marry in a parish church (which means Anglican). See GenUKI for an explanation of why most Manchester marriages around that time took place in the Collegiate Church ("Cathedral")

    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN...athedral.shtml

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    See GenUKI for an explanation of why most Manchester marriages around that time took place in the Collegiate Church ("Cathedral")

    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN...athedral.shtml
    Thank you Peter - so Salford wasn't quite as independent as I'd thought.

  3. #13
    AnthonyH
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    I am also interested in John Morris b 1831 Manchester ; later known as James Harrison.
    I would like to join the discussion of oyster17.

    Tony of Hobart

  4. #14
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Welcome to British-Genealogy Tony.

    Jim aka Oyster17 hasn't been on the site since 2010 but hopefully is still using the same email address so may receive notification of your post. I see you are both from Tassie.

    You say that you have a John Morris born c1831 who was later known as James Harrison. Can you give us any more details on your man and tell us just what information you are hoping to find?

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  5. #15
    AnthonyH
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    Dear Jim

    I know about James Harrison, formerly Jon Morris. Son of Patrick and later father of another Patrick.

    Tony

  6. #16
    AnthonyH
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    Dear Christina

    the story of John Morris is at
    https://www.users.on.net/~ahvem/page3...ge4/page4.html

    I am new to the site and don't yet fully understand it.

    I am looking for more information on John's mother (Elizabeth Delahunt?) and siblings.

    Tony

  7. #17
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Tony
    Brit-Gen isn't that difficult to negotiate, what you do have to watch out for is spending too much time reading all the threads!

    Your web site looks fantastic and the photos brought back many memories. Just one thing, children under 15 were to have their age recorded accurately, while those over 15 were to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years so 10 year–old John Morris living in Gerrards Court in 1841 was most probably that age.

    I am sure there will be other members along to take a look when they wake up "over there."

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  8. #18
    Oyster17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyH View Post
    Dear Jim

    I know about James Harrison, formerly Jon Morris. Son of Patrick and later father of another Patrick.

    Tony
    Hi Tony,

    Thank you for the contact. I was helping a colleague with some research back then and if you any information that can relate to James Morris aka Harrison, that would be great.

    I have nothing more myself.

    Many thanks.

    Kind Regards,

    Jim

  9. #19
    lancaster.jim
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    I have nothing to add about the families being discussed, but think the following notes may help understand the various points discussed.

    Further to Arthur's comments, there is an excellent site with details of the ancient parishes of south-east Lancashire - the Hundred of Salford - https://www.mancuniensis.info/ This site includes a map of the Hundred showing the parishes, and then maps of the individual parishes showing the townships as they were as they were before the Poor Law Act of 1834. This Act reorganised the provision for 'social welfare' moving it from the individual townships and parishes to Poor Law Unions. When civil registration was introduced in 1837, the Registration Districts were based on the Poor Law Union areas. It is interesting that, whilst the Hundred is the Salford Hundred, Salford was also a township in the Parish of Manchester. The south-east of Lancashire had several fragmented parishes and the 1841 Piece Numbers are based on the ancient parishes, but the Enumeration Districts within them are related to the Registration Districts.

    Under Hardwicke's Act of 1754, for a marriage to be recognised under the civil law it had to take place in a licensed Anglican church (usually the Parish Church) except for marriages of Quakers and Jews. These two groups have a different understanding of 'church' and have tighter membership. Thus all Catholic marriages 'should' appear in the Anglican Marriage Registers from 1755. The 1836 Marriage Act enabled non-Anglican to marry outside the Anglican church, either in their own chapel if it were licensed and the Registrar was in attendance, or in the Registrar's office. Where ther was a Catholic chapel, Catholics tended to be married there. However, as the custom had developed of the Anglican Parish Church being 'the' place to be married some Catholic continued to be married in the local Parish Church. In the Salford Hundred, the Manchester Parish Church, the Collegiate Church, developed a trade in marriages (see an earlier posting) and I have seen the marriages there of Catholics from outside the parish of Manchester.

    The Anglican Diocese of Manchester was established in 1847, the Collegiate Church becoming the Cathedral, so when the Catholic Hierarchy (dioceses and bishops) was re-established in 1850, English law did not permit the diocese to have the same name as an existing Anglican diocese, so the Hundreds of Salford and Blackburn (the eastern half of Lancashire) became the Diocese of Salford. The western half of Lancashire became the RC Diocese of Liverpool as there was not an Anglican diocese of Liverpool at that time.

    There has been a Catholic presence in Manchester since the mid-1700s and some of the early Catholic registers have been transcribed and are available on CD. The Manchester & Lancashire FHS has most of them for sale in its on-line shop as well as providing the index mentioned in an earlier note.

    Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

  10. #20
    AnthonyH
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    Dear Jim
    I am very sorry that circumstances prevented us getting to Bury in 2010.
    Nevertheless our visit to Ancoats was very rewarding.

    Research in Manchester found
    ‘Patrick Morris, bachelor of the parish of Manchester, painter married Elizabeth De la Hunt of the same parish, spinster after banns. Both made their mark in the register. Witnesses to the ceremony were Thomas Parry and Francis Fearney (his mark).’ (From the records of Manchester Cathedral: (MFPR 46 Manchester Central Library))
    and
    ‘Sept 1 1830 James Morris son of Patrick Morris and Elizabeth Delahunt (married) Godfather - Fras Carney, Godmother - Ann Delahunt’ (from the Catholic Baptism Registers St Marys Mulberry Street Manchester (MF 9/21 and MF 9/22 Lancashire Record Office)

    Even though Patrick Morris, and I suppose Elizabeth, were Catholics the law then required them to be married in the parish church, the Anglican Manchester Cathedral. Catholic baptisms could be done in the local church – St Mary’s in Mulberry St. Known as the hidden gem it was founded in 1794 and is probably the oldest post reformation Catholic Church in Britain.

    I think it is a cogent story but I am still looking.
    best wishes
    Tony

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