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  1. #41
    hurrell8510
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    Thank you very much Martin, that has really helped me a lot. I've ended up finding Emily's father, sister, brother-in-law, niece and nephews. John Hurrell, my main target in all this, is a little clearer. Taking what you said as absolute, rather than looking for alternatives, I have found that John Hurrell was in fact an "officer of her Majesty's Customs", I assume aka a "customs officer"

    In the 1951 census Emily Hurell says that her occupation is "Coast Guard Of Wife". I have double checked, and the record of HO107/1782/93 from Genuki, is from the 1951 census. I think that her occupation description has thrown up an error.

    In that census we know that she is married to the head of the household, but the head (John Hurrell) isn't listed, hence why the record in Genuki has no first name.

    So, as you clearly have tonnes of knowledge on this subject, I have a few questions that may point me in the direction of answering those earlier question. But please excuse my ignorance. Although fascinating, this is an entirely new subject to me.

    Why are Coastguards and Customs Officers so affiliated that they are under this general heading of "Preventative Men"?
    Why would Emily describe her occupation as "coast guard of wife"?
    Am I correct in assuming that he wouldn't have been on a call up regarding the Crimean War, and thus is likely to have died locally?
    Do you know of any sources that would help me on my quest to a year of birth and cause of death?

    Once again, a massive thanks, you've already done a huge amount for me, and please forgive me if my questions seem a little thick.

    Adam

  2. #42
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    Adam

    The Coastguard Service was originally under the control of Revenue and Customs and had been created in 1822 by amalgamating men from the Preventive Service, Revenue Cruisers (RCs) and the Mounted Guard/Riding Officers into one service. These men were primarily tasked with intercepting smugglers, whereas Customs Officers were directly responsible for collecting taxes. It was only after the Crimean War, in 1856, that the CG Service passed to the control of the Admiralty. Land based CG Men and the Mounted Guard feature in the CG Establishment Books in ADM 175, whereas Mariners serving on the RCs only appear in the Muster Books.

    Emily could still be correct in her description if John was a mariner on a Revenue Cruiser.

    I have recently researched a couple of men who served on Revenue Cruiser and who entered the Navy during the Crimean War. There are a couple of possibilities 1) John died in 1854 while with the fleet but because he did not enter the Baltic, where most CG served, he did not qualify for a medal – I have two known examples where this happened; or 2) he was serving on a RC and died as a result of sickness or an accident. The RCs did play a part in the war harrying Russian and Finish merchant ships, in which they were very successful, taking a number of prizes, but again because they did not enter foreign waters they did not qualify for a medal.

    I’m not sure if this makes the situation any clearer but I hope it helps!

    Martin

  3. #43
    flick_ryan
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    Default John Flick

    Hi Martin,

    I just came across your thread on coastguard personnel serving in the crimean war. I was wondering if your database could shed some light on my situation. My ancestor John Flick b.1814 of burnham, essex was stationed at CG reculver, kent prior to the crimean war. I have a document from when he began this position (from 1845) that suggests he had previous royal navy experience, but I have had no luck with any records. Some of his descendants (now deceased) claimed also he had served in the crimean war.

    Any help is greatly appreciated

    P.S. Also speculatively, I may have another ancestor Henry Barton (also b.1814) of whitstable, kent that may have been in the CG and served in Crimea.


    Thanks

    Ryan Flick

  4. #44
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    Ryan

    John Flick did not serve in the navy during the Crimean War, but I did trace his nomination into the CG Service back to 5 Dec 1837 from HMS Rose, with a first posting to Seasalter (ADM 175/6 pdf 66). I also checked the ADM 29 pension records available on Ancestry and found John Robert Flick. This showed John joining HMS Rose as a ordinary seamen on 17 Aug 1834 and being paid off on the 27 November 1837 - in the ship's books he was listed as John Fleck Ships No. 83 - this was his only ship.

    From the medal roll I can find only one Henry Barton, who served on HMS London as Master at Arms, ship's No. 574. To confirm if this is your man or not you would need to consult London's ships description book at the National Archive (not easy for you!), this would provide an age and place of birth, which could indicate if this is your man.

    Martin

  5. #45
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    Ryan

    To see where your ancestor was during his time on HMS Rose visit the following site: https://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/R/03991.html

    Martin

  6. #46
    flick_ryan
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    Thanks Martin, I appreciate your help.

  7. #47

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    Hi Martin, great work...........I was wondering if you had anything on Stephen Fisher..he was placed on strength on HMS Duke of Wellington around April 1855 as additional paymaster, and was in charge of the stores at Faroe ( Portugal ) until about January 1856...I am unable to access any medal rolls to see whether or not he was awarded any medals other than the China medal for his time on HMS Childers. Any help appreciated

    regards
    familyresearchr

  8. #48
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    Hi familyresearchr

    I've checked the Baltic Medal roll and cannot find a Stephen Fisher listed, and as to him qualifying for the China Medal, again I could find no entry. However, there is a Stephen Fisher, Clerk, serving on HMS Daphne who qualified for the Naval General Service Medal with Syria clasp, together with the St Jean D'Acre Medal -the former was sold by Christies.

    I do not think it inconceivable that he advanced to Paymaster from Clerk later in his career. I don't know if you've checked the National Archives catalogue, but there are a number of entries that could be your man, particularly in the ADM 196 series of officers service records.

    Martin

  9. #49

    Default

    Hi Martin, thanks for the prompt reply. Apparently the NGS medal was sold again by DNW in 2006, but they only keep records for seven years, so couldn't help me with tracing it. Any ideas how I could go about finding and possibly offering to purchase the medal?
    Appreciate the other info, will follow it up and let you know how I go.Thanks Again.

    familyresearchr

  10. #50
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    I would suggest that you join the British Medals Forum and post a request for info there.

    Martin

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