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  1. #1
    pippycat
    Guest

    Default What is Sarah Llewellyn's maiden name?

    I'm having difficulty in searching for records before 1837 so can anyone help me please?

    James Llewellyn b1781 Amroth married a Sarah ? b1782. They had 6 children all born Pembrokeshire.
    William b1821
    David b1823
    Thomas b1825
    Benjamin b1827
    Charles b1829
    Joseph b1831

    I've found IGI lists 2 possible James + Sarah matches, either Phillip or Phelps and both have the same marriage date 5/10/1805 Amroth.

    Sarah Phillip has a correct son William 14/5/1821 but other children all wrong.

    Sarah Phelps has correct children, plus an extra son, but William is listed as being christened 24/5/1815 which is 6 years difference.

    I've no idea when Sarah + James got wed but it seems a big gap between 1805 to birth of William in 1821.
    St. Issells/Narberth/Amroth are the different areas listed on various census for birth places of the whole family plus William married Mary Callan in 1842 in the Parish Church at St. Issells and I assume this would be the area for the marriage.
    So the big question is, if any kind soul is going to the record office would they do a look up for me and check it out - is it Phillip/Phelps/or neither!

    Being a cheeky cat is it possible someone could also look at a birth for me please?
    James Llewhellin b1859 Narberth (march q) I'm hoping William Llewellyn and Mary Callen will be the parents.

    Thank you, all help is very much appreciated,
    Pippycat

  2. #2
    louisa maud
    Guest

    Default

    quote:Being a cheeky cat is it possible someone could also look at a birth for me please?


    The only way you can find mother's maiden name is to purchase a birth certificate, very occassionally an incumbent at a baptism would show the maiden name but not often

    Louisa Maud

  3. #3
    pippycat
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks for quick reply louisa maud, wouldn't the marriage show Sarah's Llewellyn's maiden name ? and the cheeky birth look up is to check the named father on James birth cert. ( if william + mary callan correct then I can also narrow down death time span to 2 years for william).

    pippycat.

  4. #4
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Cheshire UK
    Posts
    4,863

    Default

    Hello

    These dates are pre 1 July 1837 when the system of Births Marriages and deaths was introduced.

    The IGI as you have found has limited information, so you need to look at the Parish records or Bishops transcripts

    If you go to forum and scroll down to IGI you will find how to select the number and film to order and view!

    geneius

  5. #5
    louisa maud
    Guest

    Default

    sorry Pippycat, I thought you were after baptism/birth records, my mistake and yes you might find their marriage which would certainly give her maiden name, seems this sun has affected my brain

    LM

  6. #6
    jonm
    Guest

    Default

    Afternoon Pippycat

    I had a look at the Dyfed FHS Pre-1813 Marriages Index for the Narberth area. The only likely marriage is James Llewhelling to Sarah Phelps in 1805 at Amroth. Based on the list of children you quote this does look suspicious. However, there’s no other likely marriage in the post-1812 index either.

    Confusion often occurs between Phelps and Phillips in the register: eg you sometimes see “Philps”: is that supposed to be Phelps or Phillips?

    As to the suspicious gap: two possible explanations come to mind: maybe James was serving in the armed forces; one of my ancestors was in the Navy for 6 years and appears not to have come home during that period. The second thought is the source of your list of baptism. If you have taken this from the IGI, I am sure you are aware how unreliable it can be. Checking the original registers may throw up more and earlier baptisms. There could be other explanations.

    Two of William and Sarah’s children were baptised at Kingsmoor Primitive Methodist Chapel, one of whom was James on 24/8/1859, born 2/7/1858; parents lived at Mountain, St Issells and father’s occupation was miner. I might have mis-transcribed the birth date which could be 1859.

    Picture of chapel:

    https://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/pem/pemsissk.htm

    Jon

  7. #7
    jonm
    Guest

    Default

    Sorry...small mistake on last posting: meant to say that James' parents were William/Mary, not William/Sarah.

    J

  8. #8
    pippycat
    Guest

    Default

    Jon, you angel! you've shed light on something - 2 baptisms in a Methodist Chapel? I assumed that because William & Mary Callan also their son Charles got wed in St Issells Parish Church (Anglican??) they would be of the Anglican faith. Hmm, wrong assumption, seems like this cat has been laying too long in the same sun as louisa maud!
    The 'cheeky cat' part came into play when I asked for confirmation of James parents - at least I have the correct Llewellyn, no matter how its spelt!
    As for Sarah I think Phelps is probably the better name - Could be a red herring but a John Phelps was witness to Charles & Mary's wedding in 1876.
    I'm going to order the James birth cert and try for a marriage between James & Sarah Phelps in 1805 to see what that brings.
    geneius, I will do that & thanks again, you helped me out last time too!
    Very kind of you all,
    Pippycat

  9. #9
    jonm
    Guest

    Default

    In 1830 Joseph Callen, Mary's father, was listed as an "occupant" of the Hill Chapel in St Issells, the forerunner of the Kingsmoor chapel I included the link for; this is the date when the chapel was granted its licence so it may be that occupant is a euphimisim for "trustee". So there could be methodist interests before William/Mary. Families chopped and changed with their religious affiliations in this area on a regular basis.

    J

  10. #10
    pippycat
    Guest

    Default

    jon, thanks so very much for interesting info you've given me, wish I could find this sort of stuff without having to keep asking for help (been searching for 1 year now so suppose I've a long way to go and lots to learn)
    regards
    Rebecca

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