What is Sarah Llewellyn's maiden name?

[Orielbenfro]

James Llewellyn b1781 Amroth married a Sarah ? b1782. They had 6 children all born Pembrokeshire.
William b1821, David b1823, Thomas b1825, Benjamin b1827, Charles b1829, Joseph b1831

It would appear you have drawn the dates above from the 41 when the family where resident at Lttle Whitelays, I would dispute the dates shown above, by my reckoning , the correct baptisms are as follows ; William 1815 at Amroth, David 1820 at Amroth, Thomas 1822 at Amroth, Benjmain 1824 at Amroth, Charles 1827 at Amroth, Joseph 1832 at Amroth.
As many will tell you ages in '41 are notorious for being very inaccurate, you will also be told they are rounded up by 5 years or down by 5 years, in my long experience they are just inaccurate period.
My findings would appear to be substantiated by the IGI, but I can always double check on a future visit to the Rec Off for you.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[pippycat]

I recognise your name Sir! from all my searching I've seen just how much help you've given to Many people so I'm thrilled to bits, you truly are welcome!

Yes I have seen that IGI info on childrens birth dates. Infact its because of that I spoke to Pembs Record Office yesterday about obtaining their parents marr/cert. (for James Llewhelling + Sarah Phelps 1805 Amroth)

As you are no doubt aware, applications have to be made in writing with as much info as possible - I don't have a lot to go on and even with Llewellyn spelt numerous ways they thought it worth a try. Thats what I shall do - unless you can tell me its completely wrong!

I'm also after a birth/cert for 1859 but the Record Office told me I had to contact the Registrar's Office to obtain this.. just out of curiosity, would you know why the Record Office can't supply both these certs for me?

Its interesting that William could not be found on 1851 census if born c1821.
(he's with parents 1841, married 1842, missing 1851, wife a widow 1861) however a William Lewelyn b abt.1817 is lodging with a "Thomas" family in Glamorgan 1851 census. Now have a good d.o.b plus possible Thomas family connection as his son married a Mary Thomas...maybe thats where he was, mining away from home!

While I'm in cheeky cat mode: I found a possible father for James Llewellin b1782 on IGI.

Father: Thomas Llewellin b1756
married Mary b1760 in Amblestone 1781
children: (who have similar names to their ancestors) james 1782/Thomas 1784/John 1786/william 1788
Is there any way you can check to see if I'm on the right track with this?

Lastly, can you please give me a clue as to how these places are connected (or not!)
St. Issells, Amroth, Amblestone and Narberth.
Thank you so much.

Very kind regards,
Rebecca

[Orielbenfro]

.............As you are no doubt aware, applications have to be made in writing with as much info as possible...............just out of curiosity, would you know why the Record Office can't supply both these certs for me?.................however a William Lewelyn b abt.1817 is lodging with a "Thomas" family in Glamorgan 1851 census..............................I found a possible father for James Llewellin b1782 on IGI..........................how these places are connected (or not!) St. Issells, Amroth, Amblestone and Narberth.

Rebecca
Have sent you a P.M.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[cliffyllew]

I'm having difficulty in searching for records before 1837 so can anyone help me please?

James Llewellyn b1781 Amroth married a Sarah ? b1782. They had 6 children all born Pembrokeshire.
William b1821
David b1823
Thomas b1825
Benjamin b1827
Charles b1829
Joseph b1831

I've found IGI lists 2 possible James + Sarah matches, either Phillip or Phelps and both have the same marriage date 5/10/1805 Amroth.

Sarah Phillip has a correct son William 14/5/1821 but other children all wrong.

Sarah Phelps has correct children, plus an extra son, but William is listed as being christened 24/5/1815 which is 6 years difference.

I've no idea when Sarah + James got wed but it seems a big gap between 1805 to birth of William in 1821.
St. Issells/Narberth/Amroth are the different areas listed on various census for birth places of the whole family plus William married Mary Callan in 1842 in the Parish Church at St. Issells and I assume this would be the area for the marriage.
So the big question is, if any kind soul is going to the record office would they do a look up for me and check it out - is it Phillip/Phelps/or neither!

Being a cheeky cat is it possible someone could also look at a birth for me please?
James Llewhellin b1859 Narberth (march q) I'm hoping William Llewellyn and Mary Callen will be the parents.

Thank you, all help is very much appreciated,
Pippycat

Pippycat

I have only recently started researching my family history and I believe that Sarah's youngest son Joseph to be my great great grandfather. I have a fair knowledge gained via a great uncle of of the descendants who moved to the Garw Valley Bridgend from around 1900.

[pippycat]

Hi Cliffyllew, right now Im only guessing that Sarah Phelps could be a possible wife to my James Llewellyn. All I can be sure of is that James had son William who was father to Charles Callan Llewellyn b 1852 St Issells & d 1922 pentre. Charles had daughter Gwladys b 1904 Pentre. If any of this matches what you know then we could be on the right track.
Regards,
Pippycat

[Orielbenfro]

I believe you will find that
Benjamin Llewellin was baptized 26 Sep 1824 at Amroth
Charles Llewellin was baptized 22 Apr 1927 at Amroth
David Llewellin was baptized 02 Apr 1820 at Amroth
Joseph Llewellin was baptized 26 Jul 1832 at Amroth
Thomas Llewellin was baptized 12 May 1822 at Amroth
William Llewellin was baptized 14 May 1815 at Amroth ~ Poss buried 1835
William Llewellin was baptized 07 June 1835 at Amroth

The surname above come from the Amroth register and are not adjusted in spelling to fit. Can you confirm that the dates of birth you give come from subtraction on the 1841 census.

I note the baptism of
Elizabeth Llewellin at St Issells 11 Aug 1816 to William & Ann Llewellin
Surname as per parish register.

Since James’ surname is splelt Llewhelling at mrge it could be that the incumbant also spelt the name of his possible brother William Llewhelling who married Elizabeth Parsell at Amroth in 1806.

If it helps I can double check mrge entry and see if they had any baptism 1805 to 1813 at the Rec Off. Of course being pre 1837 there will be no parents names in the register mrge entry, but witnesses may give a hint.

Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[pippycat]

Thank you so much for info, and yes I did get dates from unreliable 1841!

If William No.1 did die age 20 in 1835 and William No.2 baptised in 1835 then neither of them could have married Mary Callen in 1842 and she is definitely Mother to my Charles b 1852 and James b 1858.
Does that mean that I am on the wrong track with this particular William 'Llewellyn' family?

[Orielbenfro]

If William No.1 did die age 20 in 1835 and William No.2 baptised in 1835 then neither of them could have married Mary Callen in 1842................. Does that mean that I am on the wrong track with this particular William 'Llewellyn' family?

Searching the wrong line (we have all done it) would be an answer as to why no baptism 1805 to 1815, I would like to do some double checking at the Record Office, not least to confirm I am not suddonly leading you up the wrong alley. You would have to be patient as it will be next week sometime before I am there again.
What say you ?
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[Orielbenfro]

Pippycat,
I have just sat and searched for a baptism that might equate to James Llewhellin(various spelling) and failed. I then searched my own copy of the 1861 census, I have searched Amroth, Ludchurch, Begelly et al and finally searched St Issells, in total I can only come up with one James Llewhellin(various spellings) aged circa 2 yrs in 1861 he is ;
James Llewhellyn aged 2 living at Woodside with his mother Mary Llewhellin a widow who works at the Coal Mine aged 41, in the house are his siblings John, Betsey, Anne, Sarah, Charles and William.
I have found a baptism to equate to Anne above in 1846 to William & Mary. Therefore either some of the children where not baptised or some of the children where baptised non-conformist. A situation I have with the Oriel's in the 19th century.
Of the 6 available post 1838 I can see 2 possible mrge's that could fit for the parents of the above james born in 1859 they are William Llewellin to Mary Williams in 4th Qtr 1839 or William LLewellyn to Mary Callen in 3rd Qtr of 1842.
This would make the William baptised at Amroth in 1815 the lightly husband of at least one of the two mrge's here shown and the William Llewellyn burial of 1835 whilst still correct is in fact not related to this William.
The only way I can see to tell which mrge is correct is to obtain the birth certificate of James born 1859, otherwise one can not be sure that whatever mrge one follows is the correct one without seeing the mothers maiden name off Jaes's birth cert.
Sorry to have probably repeated all your own research, but was the only way I could understand what to follow.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[pippycat]

I have the following certs which connect to my father therefore assume this info all correct.

Marriage: 13 Aug 1842

William Llewellyn, of full age, collier, parish of Amroth, father: James (labourer) to
Mary Callen, of full age, Mountain, father: Joseph (collier)

Birth 2 x sons:

Charles Callen Llewhelin b. 10 Dec 1852, Woodside, father: William (collier) mother: Mary formerly Callen

James Llewhellyn b. 2 July 1858, Sardis, father: William (coal miner) mother: Mary formerly Callen

Also have certs for 2 marriages + death for Charles, birth of his daughter, birth of her son (my father)

Followed your above mentioned James Llewhellin from 1861 + 1871 census where he's living with his mother at Woodside, to 1881 when he's now married to Mary with 2 sons (John & yes, another William!) still living with his mother but now address Sardis. Wasn't sure if he was connected but looks as if he maybe.

Pleased to know William No.1 is still possible, there are so many is hard to separate them!
(The William bap. 7 June 1835 is listed on IGI with parents David + Mary, so ruled out)

I'm so grateful to have your help that waiting is NO problem at all - pippy Cats are known for their patience!

Very kind regards
Rebecca