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  1. #21
    Mutley
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    And in 1881 this same James born 1854/1855 in Leominster is the nephew of Caroline Gregg and is living in Cranes Lane.

  2. #22
    Geoffers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley
    There is also a marriage of a Hannah Davies in Dec 1868 with a Samuel Goodere Crump on the same page. Worth looking into?
    On the same page there is an entry for Frances Elizabeth DAVIES.

    It looks as though Samuel married her in 1868 - see the 1871 census for Wolverhampton RG10/2930 f4 p2 (reference to census held at TNA). This has Samuel G CRUMP aged 24 and Frances E Crump wife aged 26, both born Kingland, Herefordshire - also at the address is an unmarried visitor Jane C DAVIES.

  3. #23
    Mutley
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    OK,
    G/J-1831 appears born Leominster in 1831 age 30 as a Cordwainer in
    1861 when he is with Hannah and children G/J 1855 and Thomas W 1858 and Hannah 1860,
    1871 after Hannah's death, he is a Widower age 40, a Cordwainer
    with G/J 1855, (he is a bricklayers's apprentice) Fanny 1862 and William 1857 in New Street.
    1881 he is still born 1831 in Leominster age 50 but is now married to Georgina (in 1880) and is a Shoemaker and has Frederick, a son born in 1873, and they live in 136 Everton Road.
    1891 he is a 60 year old Shoemaker living with married daughter Hannah Biggs. Frederick at the age of 19 is living with them in Blair Street, Bootle, Lancs.
    1906 he dies.

    G/J 1855 is he the son that goes on in
    1881 to be James, the Masons labourer (Bricklayer) born 1855 in Leominster and the nephew of Caroline Gregg and living in Cranes Lane.

    1891 as George born 1855 in Leominster, a lodger with Caroline Gregg a widow and her two grandchildren Mary E BREWER 1883 and Albert E BREWER 1890, he is a Bill Poster living in Cranes Lane.

    1901 born 1855 in Leominster married to Annie with children William G and James F a Bill Poster living in Cranes Lane.

    The Ancestry tree puts Hannah Gregg as the mother of G/J 1855.
    You think that Hannah Brewer Boulds is the mother of G/J 1855

    But I still cannot tie Albert Benson to Davies/Crump AND Brewer / Gregg.



  4. #24
    Mutley
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    Do you have a Family History (Mormon, IGI) Branch near you?
    They have the parish records for Leominster.

    Elizabeth Benson born 1 March 1866 baptised 3 July 1866
    parents George James and Hannah

    Hannah Benson baptised 14 Mar 1861
    parents George James and Hannah

    There are mentions of Crump, Davi(e)s, Brewer, Gregg and Benson so it may be the only way to sort them out.

  5. #25
    Mutley
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    What may be useful to know is

    1911 Census
    RG14. PN 15818 SN
    26
    (record held by TNA, Crown Copyright)
    Upper Hill, Hope Under Dinmore, Leominster


    Benson
    Albert age 37 born 1874 in Leominster, a gardener
    Mary Ann, married 17 years, age 37 born 1874 in Myrtha, Glamorgan
    Leonard James age 11, born 1900
    William Henry age 10, born 1901
    Ada Mary age 8, born 1903
    Marion Caroline age 7, born 1904
    Eva Annie age 4, born 1907
    Gerald Reuben age 1, born 1910

    Children all born in Hope Under Dinmore

  6. #26
    Mutley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley
    There is also a marriage of a Hannah Davies in Dec 1868 with a Samuel Goodere Crump on the same page. Worth looking into?
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    On the same page there is an entry for Frances Elizabeth DAVIES.

    It looks as though Samuel married her in 1868 - see the 1871 census for Wolverhampton RG10/2930 f4 p2 (reference to census held at TNA). This has Samuel G CRUMP aged 24 and Frances E Crump wife aged 26, both born Kingland, Herefordshire - also at the address is an unmarried visitor Jane C DAVIES.
    Bummer!
    That puts Hannah Davies with John Cropp.

    Methinks it is bed time, I have a headache!!

  7. #27
    Geoffers
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    To summarise, there seems to be a connection between the DAVIES and CRUMP family through marriage.

    A DAVIES child lived with a CRUMP family.

    The DAVIES child's first name of Albert and approx year of birth and place of birth match up with Albert BENSON.

    There is oral evidence of Albert BENSON living with a CRUMP family.

    I think it probable that Albert was the son of James George (bn 1831), but it is possible that he was the son of George James (bn 1855) - so this still needs to be explored.

    I think we've reached as far as we can with speculation and Al et al now needs to look at supporting evidence from the birth certificate for Albert James DAVIES to see if that helps to clarify things. Finding the name of the mother will be interesting. A second line of enquiry might be to look at the parish register for a baptism and possibly additional notes in the register.

  8. #28
    JAP1
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    Re:
    Birth: Albert James DAVIES, Sep qtr 1872 Leominster vol. 6a page 532

    There's a baptism in the IGI:
    Albert James DAVIS (sic), bap 24 Aug 1872, Bodenham (which is in the Leominster registration district), mother Hannah DAVIS

    BUT ...
    Death: Albert James DAVIES, age 0, Sep qtr 1872 Leominster vol 6a page 320



    JAP

  9. #29
    JAP1
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    The surname of the Albert B with William & Emma CRUMP in Yarpole in 1874 is very difficult to decipher - could be almost anything.

    RG12/ Piece 2074/ Folio 121/ Page 15 (crown copyright)

  10. #30
    Al et al
    Guest

    Default Albert who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley View Post
    What may be useful to know is

    1911 Census
    RG14. PN 15818 SN
    26
    (record held by TNA, Crown Copyright)
    Upper Hill, Hope Under Dinmore, Leominster


    Benson
    Albert age 37 born 1874 in Leominster, a gardener
    Mary Ann, married 17 years, age 37 born 1874 in Myrtha, Glamorgan
    Leonard James age 11, born 1900
    William Henry age 10, born 1901
    Ada Mary age 8, born 1903
    Marion Caroline age 7, born 1904
    Eva Annie age 4, born 1907
    Gerald Reuben age 1, born 1910

    Children all born in Hope Under Dinmore
    Thank you. Ada Mary was my grandmother.

    There seems to be an endless maze wherein we can lose ourselves. If Davies is not too clear on the form, then maybe it isn't Davies.
    It seems pretty certain that GeorgeJames Snr or Jnr is Albert's Dad. According to marriage certif his Dad was a cordwainer and this applies only to George Jnr.

    The 2 problems remain.
    1. George Snr was between wives when Albert and Frederick were born.
    2. There is no paperwork linking Albert to this family. If he had been farmed out as a youngster to a rellie then he may have temporarily used their surname until adulthood? In which case, it could be Albert Anybody on a census.

    No, unfortunately, I do not live near anywhere with databases as I live in an isolated corner of namibia, Africa!

    Will Albert remain elusive? I think you folk have been so thorough. I am not sure there is another avenue to try.
    ... Or is there always one more?!

    As for:
    The Ancestry tree puts Hannah Gregg as the mother of G/J 1855.
    You think that Hannah Brewer Boulds is the mother of G/J 1855

    I may well be wrong about the Boulds surname.
    Free BMD has a marriage registered in Sep 1852 for George James Benson
    and Hannah Brewer Boulds at Leominster. 6a/807

    Would Caroline be using her maiden name, Gregg?
    Her children are called Brewer.

    Caroline's dead husband may have been called Brewer (hence the children's surname), and was brother to Hannah. Who married a Boulds then Benson?

    Or am I clutching at straws?!

    Alisan

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