Benson, Albert/George

[Geoffers]

A possibility for you to consider.

From the original query we are looking for Albert BENSON whose dad was George and a shoemaker. Albert says he was born in Leominster.

No birth registered for Albert, no trace in census. Yet other births were registered and other children appear in census. Something isn't quite right.

Was Albert illegitimate and at his marriage mixed up father and grandfather?

Searching the 1881 census for any Alberts born 1874 +/- 1 year born in Leominster and living in Leominster brings back 5 hits.

4 are with married parents and it seems likely they can be eliminated.
The last one is for Albert DAVIES, aged 7 who is a boarder with Crump family in Yarpole, Herefordshire. See RG11/2607 f141 p21 (original census in care of TNA).

Now I've only searched using very narrow criteria; you may have to expand the search (in particular birth year range) to bring up other possibilities. But perhaps your chap grew up using another surname and only reverted to his biological dad's surname sometime around 1901? This may explain his absence from earlier records.

As I began, this is just a possibility, an idea - something to be proved, or disproved.

[Al et al]

Deer Grate Tuch Toipist,

My grandmother told me, many years ago when I asked her for details, that her Dad was adopted/fostered by a Mrs Crump. Then she died and I could not ask her to elaborate. No one else in the family (grandchildren) know anything.
I found that Mrs Crump and the Albert coincides with birth year. But I could not reconcile the Davies.
In 1891 Albert B Davies is still with the Crump's.........The D of Davies looks like a W but it's the same chap. The 'B' could perhaps stand for Benson?

If the George/James is Albert's father and Frederick his brother (and I know from Albert's obit he had a brother called Frederick), both Frederick and Albert have birth dates after the death of Albert's first wife, and before the 2nd marriage to Georgina whom he (probably met and) married in Liverpool.

If Gerogina is the mother of Albert (and Fred) from a previous marriage, how come he is not born and living in her hometown, Lewes?

He is a leominster boy .... so neither Hannah (who died before they were born) nor Georgina (whom George/James hadn't met yet) can be their mother.

There is a 3rd woman!! it seems the ONLY explanation.
Maybe he WAS illegitimate and his mother was a Davies?

Unless he was using a different surname before 1901 he MUST appear on one census at least. But he doesn't.

[Al et al]

Mutley,

(sorry about the duplication i tried to get rid of it by typing over it with this one I will repost now, but it did not work.)

You say: Funnily enough, the wife in the household is Fanny Biggs, she just happens to have been born in Leominster in about 1863. Coincidence?

Well, he had a daughter called Fanny, born Leominster Sept 1862.
Perhaps she was his incentive to go and look for work in Liverpool - somewhere guaranteed to live.

Al

[Geoffers]

Deer Grate Tuch Toipist,

Ah, I sea you went to the same scool of tiepin

My grandmother told me, many years ago when I asked her for details, that her Dad was adopted/fostered by a Mrs Crump.

Well that additional information certainly doesn't rule out the entry found; so this might be the right track?

In 1891 Albert B Davies is still with the Crump's.........The D of Davies looks like a W but it's the same chap. The 'B' could perhaps stand for Benson?

Again, quite possible.

Interstingly there is a birth registered in Sept 1872 for Albert James DAVIES in Leominster vol. 6a page 532 (do double check to make sure I have copied this correctly).

Is the middle name of James significant?

Did James George the shoemaker or George James the son, sow some wild oats?

If it was James George, this would fit in with the dad's recorded occupation and having a (half?) brother called Frederick.

If the George/James is Albert's father and Frederick his brother (and I know from Albert's obit he had a brother called Frederick), both Frederick and Albert have birth dates after the death of Albert's first wife, and before the 2nd marriage to Georgina whom he (probably met and) married in Liverpool.

If Georgina is the mother of Albert

A big leap that I wouldn't like to make at the moment. There are a lot of ifs, buts and maybes here and (being good at spending other peoples' money) I think the purchase of the birth certifiace for Albert James DAVIES mentioned above might be a reasonable expense. It should either help to show this is the wrong chap - or it will help you to identify the mother and hoepfully what happened to her.

There is a 3rd woman!! it seems the ONLY explanation.
Maybe he WAS illegitimate and his mother was a Davies?

This is what seems possible/probable to me.

IF I have identified the correct person (It seems possible that I have with your additional information about Mrs CRUMP) then as mentioned the birth certificate will help.

BUT - do have a look at census returns for other Alberts born in Leominster with an expanded age rnage of perhaps 1874 +/- 5 years and see if other possibilities turn up who can be elimated because parents were married, or because there is a corresponding death in the GRO index.

Unless he was using a different surname before 1901 he MUST appear on one census at least.

Not strictly accurate.

Some census returns have been damaged and are not all entries are indexed.

Some census enumerator books are missing.

People in institutions (asylums, workhouses, prisons) are often only recorded by initials - I did look for this find but could not an obvious match

Those serving abroad in the armed forces are often missing. The army abroad were not enumerated. I could not find a match for your chap in Royal Navy or Royal Marines records.

In conclusion, from the information available, I am hopeful that Albert DAVIES is your chap - I would suggest purchasing his birth certificate and also suggest checking parish registers in case some additional note is made in the register which identifies the father or connects Albert DAVIES with a BENSON father.

[Mutley]

I've returned to find you going great guns without me, well done folks.

But I've become a little confused.....

G/J-1831 as the cordwainer married to Hannah in 1852 (she dies 1867)
Children:
G/J-1854, (bricklayer's app. then shoe maker) Thomas/William 1857
Hannah 1860
Fanny 1862 (becomes wife of John Briggs?)

Then in the 1881 census we have G/J-1831 with Georgina and a possible marriage to Georgina Smith in 1880.

have this in the 1881 census:
James G. BENSON Head 50 Leominster, HRD Shoe Maker (b abt 1831)
Georgina BENSON Wife 50 Lewes, Sussex
Frederick BENSON Son 8 (b.1873) Leominster, Hereford Scholar

There is a birth for G/J-1854 (6a/445). He is in the 1861 with mum Hannah, Dad and sibs. He is in 1871 with Dad and sibs.
and then goes missing though we have

James as the nephew of Caroline Gregg in 1881

George as a lodger in 1891 with Caroline Gregg a widow and her two grandchildren Mary E 1883 and Albert E 1890 and he is the Bill Poster!
The Ancestry tree puts Hannah Gregg as his mother.

At the moment I still cannot sort out the father of Albert and Fred let alone whether Georgina is the mother or grandmother.

I have to go out now, I will try and get back to it soon.

I'd love to look at Fred's birth certificate.

[Al et al]

Hmm, you have both given me stuff to digest.

I don't know where I got Albert's DOB from (July 29 1874) so I guess it is not cast in stone.

Caroline Gregg is a new name to me. How is she an aunt?

James is a popular name on the tree I am building and Albert gave one of his sons James as a middle name. But 'James' is no proof, I know.

I have drawn up a hypothetical tree for you to see what I have at the moment.

1 George James “James” BENSON (1831 Leominster – Dec 1896 Everton, Liverpool)
+ Hannah Brewer BOULDS (abt 1829 – Dec 1867 Leominster)
2 George James “James” BENSON (Sep 1854 Leominster – )
+ ANNIE (abt 1873 – )
3 William George BENSON (abt 1894 – )
+ HANNAH
3 James Frederick BENSON (abt 1896 – )
2 Thomas W BENSON (Jun 1857 Leominster – 1867)
2 Hannah BENSON (Jun 1860 Leominster – )
2 William BENSON (1858 Leominster – 1893)
2 Fanny BENSON (Sep 1862 Leominster – )
+ John BIGGS/Briggs?
2 Elizabeth BENSON (Mar 1866 Leominster – )
+ Mystery WOMAN
2 Frederick William BENSON (1873 Leominster – )
+ Florence STONE (1873 Yarpole – )
2 ?Albert BENSON/Davies (29 Jul 1894 Leominster – 29 Jun 1942)
+ Georgina SMITH (abt 1831 Lewes, Sussex – 1888 Everton, Liverpool)

[Al et al]

You say:

James as the nephew of Caroline Gregg in 1881
George as a lodger in 1891 with Caroline Gregg a widow and her two grandchildren Mary E 1883 and Albert E 1890 and he is the Bill Poster!
The Ancestry tree puts Hannah Gregg as his mother.

Is Hannah Gregg supposed to be sister of George, Aunt of James (1854)?
When you say Hannah Gregg as 'his mother', who is 'his'?

I am intrigued!

I also note that one of her grandchildren is called albert!

Alisan

[Al et al]

I am trying to edit and repost a correction on the previous posting but it keeps posting the mistake one. duh!

Is Hannah Gregg supposed to be sister of George, Aunt of James (1854)?
or maybe even his mother, hannah's, sister. George's daughter Fanny went to live in Liverpool so there may well have been some family there already.

[Mutley]

Hello Alison,
You cannot post a correction to a previous post unless you are quick, I think the edit time is about 5 minutes.

What I am trying to do, at the moment is list out all the census, entries, who is where and doing what. We seem to have three generations muddled up, or at least I do.

Meanwhile, there is a service record in WWI for a William George born Leominster 1897 who says his father is George Benson. I am sure he is connected to one of them.

There is also a marriage of a Hannah Davies in Dec 1868 with a Samuel Goodere Crump on the same page. Worth looking into?

[Mutley]

I have to go out again soon, sorry but...

The William George born 1897, (with the service record) stating father as George, is living in Cranes Lane.
He seems to be the child of the James that is the Auctioneer's bill poster in 1891 and married to Annie because they also live in Cranes Lane.