William GREGORY and Ann GOODWIN

[Stuart.G]

Thanks to UK who found the subject marriage of my gggrandfather on 30 March 1828 at Manchester Cathedral with both "of this parish". His son, on William's death certificate, states that he was born in Derbyshire. He appears to have been born c1805 but I have no info on his parents other than his father was a weaver. I have no info on Ann at all. William came to Australia and married a Sarah Nicholson in 1838.

I have no info on when or how William came to Australia and whether Ann came with him or not. If William wasn't a bigamist, Ann may have died before 1838, possibly around Manchester. I can find no record of a death of an Ann GREGORY or an Ann GOODWIN before 1838 in Australia.

I would appreciate some advice on where to look for more info, particularly about the births of William and Ann, their respective families and the possible death of Ann between 1828 and 1838. Thanks.

[uksearch]

I'll have a dig around,but I am not too hopeful.Maybe you could put a message on the DBS forum?

UK

[Stuart.G]

Thanks again UK. A relative on a distant limb of my tree in New South Wales is planning to be in the Lancs and DBS areas later this year to further this research. Any advice on prioritising the places she could visit to chase down William and Ann would be very much appreciated.

To add spice we are trying to prove or disprove that the William GREAVES alias GREGORY who was sentenced in the Derby Assizes on 23 March 1833 to transportation for 7 years was the same person. At the time of his arrest, according to newspaper accounts at the time, William stated that his Mother lived in Water Street in Manchester. Did a GREGORY or a GREAVES family live in Water Street in 1833? Was one of these a weaver? What was Water Street like in 1833?

This William was transported on the "Lloyds" which arrived in Sydney on 18 Dec 1833. Did he conveniently state that he was a "widower", if it was he that married Sarah Nicholson in Sydney in 1838.

Despite there being substantial circumstantial evidence (e.g. the same age and both being born in Derbyshire) which leads to the conclusion that they are one and the same person. On the other hand there is a lack of evidence which results in the conclusion that they are two different people.

Any help to solve this dilemma would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Stuart

[uksearch]

I can only find two William GREGORYs who were joiners (as per marriage PR) listed in the 1832 TD.One at Kay St,Ardwick and one at Temple Place,Salford.The early TDs do not have the alpabetical street index with heads of households as the later ones do, so it would be a long task to go through all the GREGORYs or GREAVES.
Do you have any records in Australia with William GREGORYs signature? On the PR William GREGORYs signaure is very distinctive.

UK

[Stuart.G]

Thanks again UK. Your continued help is very much appreciated.

I have to express my ignorance! What does the letters TD stand for?

I don't have any documents showing William's signature. This is a very good pointer that you have raised. It will be a long shot, but I will try and see if I can view some original document which may have a signature. Perhaps my NSW relative can view the original church record when he married Sarah NICHOLSON. I will let her know of your continued help and to ask her to try and locate a signature when she is next in Sydney. She lives on the mid south coast of NSW.

Thanks for the info on the addresses of the two William GREGORYs who were joiners. With nothing coming up for Water Street, Manchester, this is another bit of non-evidence linking the two William GREGORYs.

For a guide to my rellie coming to Manchester, how many TDs (see my comment above) are there between c1805 and 1833? Would you be able to give me any idea on how long it would take someone, relatively skilled, to search through the listed GREGORYs?

Thanks again for your help. I will have to get an email off to my NSW rellie straight away.

Stuart

[uksearch]

I am sorry Stuart and others,

TD = Trade directory.In this instance Pigot's 1832 Manchester & Salford Trade Directory.I think that you can discount the William living at Kay St as he was still living there in 1836 as per TD.There were at least two Water Streets in Manchester as this time.One in the Deansgate area and the other one in the St George's district.
I am not sure how many TDs MCL (see my location) has between 1805 and 1835 on film,but there will be at least a dozen.
I have to go running out of time ... maybe 8 hours or more maybe less.

UK

[Stuart.G]

Thanks UK for the explanation and the added info. Seems she should allow two days just to view the TDs!!!

[Stuart.G]

A further thought on the GREGORY at Kay Street. If he is my William he has until 1838 to leave the UK. If he was William GREAVES alias GREGORY he would have to be gone by 1833.

I've sent an email to my rellie in NSW asking whether she can obtain a signature. I don't anticipate a quick response. Thanks for your help.

[uksearch]

I have just had a look at what MCL has on film.They are approx 24 TDs between 1805 and 1832 and they are contained on 9 reels of film.There is then a gap untill 1836.
I was was looking at the 1838 TDs for someone and noticed that this did have an alphabetical street listing with heads of households.They was only one Water listed,I think that by then the other one had changed to Jackson St.They were no GREGORYs listed...I'd forgotten about looking for GREAVES.

UK

[Stuart.G]

Thanks again UK. So, no GREGORYs in Water Street in 1838. I appreciate the efforts you have made and the info on the 9 reels of film. Seems like a lengthy job for my rellie if she gets a chance.

Certainly no concerns here about you forgetting the GREAVES name, but if you do get a chance and you do remember I would certainly be interested in the results of any GREAVES in Water St about 1833.

I haven't heard back from my rellie in NSW, but I should do within a week.