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Thread: BAWTREE

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Liverpool Mercury December 23 1891

    BANKRUPTCY ACTS 1883 & 1890 (From the London Gazette of last night)
    John Bawtree, the Hon.Eustace Henry Dawnay, Octavius Bawtree and Robert Lothian Curzon, trading as Mills, Bawtree, Dawnay, Curzon & Co, Colchester, Hadleigh, Suffolk, Witham, Clacton-on-Sea, Walton-on-the-Naze and Kelvedon, all Essex, bankers, co-partners.

    Birmingham Daily Post February 13 1892

    COLCHESTER BANK FAILURE
    The Chief Official Receiver yesterday filed a report in regard to the Colchester Bank failure. He finds that John and Octavius Bawtree since 1883 either knew or might have known from information in their possession that the bank was insolvent. Messrs Dawnay and Curzon did not know the true state of affairs until at least 1889.
    Sue Mackay
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  2. #12
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Go to the SEAX Search site and enter Bawtree and you will find that they hold various documents for your family, such as wills and monumental inscriptions.
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  3. #13
    messers
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRosebud View Post
    White's Directory of Essex 1848
    Lists the following Bawtree family members:

    Mrs. Elizabeth Bastree
    George Bawtree, borough treasurer
    John Bawtree, sen. esq., banker h. Abberton
    John Bawtree, jun. Esq., banker
    Octavius Bawtree, Esq.

    Could Elizabeth's surname be misspelt and actually be Bawtree?

    I have:
    Samuel Bawtree who married Sarah Finch. They had a daughter Sarah (abt 1773) (she married John Humble) and a son -
    John ie father of John snr. Dont know who he married but he had son -
    John snr (abt 1794 - 1873) who married Mary Postle. They had Emma, Octavius, Maria and -
    John jun. (probably born before 1830). do not know anything about him.

    Michelle

    Do you know how George Bawtree fits in?

  4. #14
    messers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Mackay View Post
    Is your "D. BAWTREE" David I wonder? In which case it looks as if he was the child of Octavius by his first marriage. Getting the marriage certificate of Octavius and Charlotte would prove whether Octavius was a widower in 1873.

    1861 census for Abberton: Class: RG9; Piece: 1102; Folio: 59; Page: 1

    John BAWTREE 67 Magistrate for Essex 7 banker b Wivenhoe
    Mary wife 64 b Norfolk Colney
    Octavius son 30 banker's clerk b Colchester
    David P grandson 8 b Kent, Chatham
    Jessie M granddau 5 b Ireland
    Sarah POSTLE sister-in-law unm 66 b Norfolk, Thorpe
    Charlotte POSTLE sister-in-law unm 60 b Norfolk, Colney

    Should have added that the Bawtree family always had several live in servants so were obviously well-to-do.

    Looks like the family moved about a bit. In 1871 Octavius is still with Mum and Dad in Abberton, described as unmarried. Also at home are the two sisters Emma and Maria. Emma is Emma ROBINSON, a widow, and is there with three children. The eldest, Annie E Robinson (11) was born in South Africa. Emma M (9) and Arthur W BOBINSON were born in Abberton. Octavius' other sister Maria HUNT (38) was described as married so may just have been visiting, or else her husband was off on his travels as well

    It looks like the D. Bawtree, could be this David. The daugher was born in Ireland, where Octavius' wife Jane, is from, but they only married (officially) in 1873. The family in SA knew of John Henry Bawtree as the only child of Octavius and Elizabeth. So I wonder what happend to David and Jessie? There seems to be a lot of movement around England and into Ireland - David born in Kent, Jessie in Ireland, Jane in Ireland, John Henry Bawtree in colchester.

  5. #15
    messers
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    Ah ha, i have been looking on the SEAX site.

    David Postle BAWTREE, shipwrecked in the China Sea, November 1872.

    This could be the David P. on the 1861 census? If so, this would also explain why John Henry never mentioned him (presuming both John Henry and David Postle to be the sons of Octavius)

    In 1851 census there is mention of Octavius' grandson, Edward J from Upper Canada. I have yet to work out who his parents were. I do not see mention of him again.

  6. #16
    messers
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    On the SEAX site there is mention of:
    Will of John BAWTREE of Chelmsford, spinster, (created on 5 January 1750/51)

    How can John be a spinster?

    Does this mean that he died in 1750?

  7. #17
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by messers View Post
    How can John be a spinster?
    I must admit I wondered that
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  8. #18
    messers
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    Default Edward I BAWTREE

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Mackay View Post
    Octavius's family would seem to have lived in Abberton, Essex, where the neice was born.

    1851 census: HO107; Piece: 1782; Folio: 199; Page: 5
    North End, Abberton, Essex (when I lived in Colchester many years ago I seem to remember there was an Abberton Road to the south west of the town)

    John BAWTREE 57 Magistrate and Banker b Essex, Wivenhoe
    Mary wife 54 b Norfolk, Colney
    Emma dau 21 b Colchester
    Maria dau 18 b Colchester
    Octavius son 20 solictor's articled clerk b Colchester
    Edward J grandson 2 b Upper Canada
    It seems that Edward was a son of Octavius - making him a father at only 18 ....
    Could he have married before he married Charlotte Evans - he was quite old when they married? If so, then was the mother of Edward the same mother of David Postle and Jessie M?
    Or was Octavius raising his children without marrying the mothers?

  9. #19
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by messers View Post
    In 1851 census there is mention of Octavius' grandson, Edward J from Upper Canada. I have yet to work out who his parents were. I do not see mention of him again.
    Typo above, you meant to put John's grandson

    The 1881 census index comes up with an entry for a Edward J Bawtree without any age. On clicking on the image I saw that his name had originally been written on the crew sheet of the Royal Navy ship Defence, with the rank of lieutenant, and then scored out. Thinking he must therefore have been in the Navy I looked on TNA's Documents Online and found the service record of Edward John Bawtree, date of birth 15th April 1848, which must surely be him? Probably worth £3:50 to download.
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  10. #20
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    I had a look on Google Book Search.

    The first hit was a bit frustrating as it only had a snippet. From The Banker's Magazine Volume 33 (1873)

    Mr. John BAWTREE: On the 21st November, at Abberton, near Colchester, Essex, John Bawtree Esq, for 50 years a member of the old-established banking firm of Messrs. Mills, Bawtree, Errington & Co, Colchester, aged 80 years. He was the son of the late John Bawtree Esq...

    (no more visible, and you probably already had the above info but would be interested in the rest!!)

    Another snippet only, this time from the Essex Review Vols 20-21 (1911)
    (page 110)

    Frank Postle BAWTREE of Witham died.. of typhoid fever, contracted from eating oysters. Only son of Francis Bawtree, and grandson of John Bawtree JP DL of Abberton, Lord Lieutenant of the County, he was born at West Mersea Hall on 11th December 1844. He was educated at Winchester and admitted a solicitor in 1867. He married...

    More about Frank Postle Bawtree on this thread.

    I went to the Internet Archive to see if I could get a fuller version of the Essex Review. The first hit came up with the 1908 edition, too early for the above, but page 58 contained the following interesting extract.

    .... For the convenience of his friends or customers, the merchant negotiated their bills and drafts with his own; gradually this part of his business outstripped in importance the earlier calling, and he became a 'banker' pure and simple. This was the case with Richard and John Twining, tea dealers, of the Strand, and John Mills, tea dealer, of High Street, Colchester, who together commenced operations as bankers in Colchester about 1765, and who are generally regarded as the pioneers of banking in the county. Twinings retired from the local bank and were succeeded by John Bawtree of Colchester, and the name became Mills, Bawtree & Co. This bank's stoppage in 1891 will be remembered.
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

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