Isaac Odgers

[Colin Rowledge]

With this proliferation of Odgers it's difficult to be certain. The 1851 census has this:

Joseph Odger 46 Inn Keeper
Grace 34 b. Crowan?
John 10 b. Penryn
Address: Gribbes Ref: HO107; 1914; page 40

Thomasin

Hi Thomasin
If your confused in Kent allow me to be confused in Canada. Appears to be same family as in 1861, but without Joseph Henry

[Thomasin]

It doesn't help when there are TWO Joseph Odger(s) of about the same age in the same village. Last night I typed out the complete details of the Wrong One before trying the variant spelling, and then the right one came up (well, it was very late at night here).

In 1841 the family is just the same, Joseph (abt 35) Common Brewer
Grace (abt 25) and John (8 months).

Same address. Ref: HO107; 139; 3/67; 17.

There's a marriage in 1826 on IGI, but that's one of the Wrong Ones.

Your Joseph's marriage only shows, as far as I can see, on FreeBMD. Joseph Odgers and Grace Eustice, June quarter 1840 Falmouth 9 93.

Doing a parent search on IGI for the family of Joseph and Grace, John (1841) was named John Eustice, followed by Grace in 1842. I've found her in 1851, visiting her grandparents at Penryn, John and Grace Eustice. If this name wasn't enough, she is down as 'Brewer's daughter'. On IGI there are no less than three Joseph Henrys, 1846, 1855 and 1861. For yours to be 6 in 1861, obviously he is the 1855 one. I wondered if the '6' was actually '16' but looking again at the image, it's definitely 6.

I'm getting more convinced that the 1871 census information I gave you was for the wrong people. How about this one:

Grace Odgers 52 b. Penryn - Toll Gate Keeper
Joseph 14 b. Stithians

The address is: Turnpike, North Parade, Budock.

So where's Joseph senior? There is a Joseph Odgers (67) visiting John Odgers and his family in Falmouth. Joseph is a retired miner, and blind. This doesn't fit with your Joseph, who since 1841 was into brewing and innkeeping.

If Grace and young Joseph are the right people, the ages are a bit out. Young Joseph should be 16, not 14. Oh 'eck, why do they have to keep recycling the names?

Thomasin

[Colin Rowledge]

I have been very tardy with regard to this thread. I will now compile as must info as has been developed and will update during the course of the day

Cheers
Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

I think this must be Father Joseph in 1861 with his first wife, and there is a son Joseph.

Joseph Odger 56 Farmer & Brewer b. Stithians
Grace 44 b. Stithians
John 20 b. Stithians
Joseph Henry 6 b. Stithians
Grace Eustice Mother in law Widow 73 Annuity b. Stithians

Address: Tremall, Velandrucia, Stithians Ref: RG09; 1578; 118; 27.

Thomasin

Hi Thomasin

Just catching my breath [as well as catching up on this thread]. Somethings just jumped out at me from your post -
1] Grace his wife aged 44 is unlikely to be the mother of John aged 20. She could well be the mother of Joseph Henry born September q 1855.

2] Grace appears to be named after her mother, Grace Eustice. What is unique about the 'Eustice' name is that in my Ball family, 1 of my Grandmother's siblings had the following name:
Hannah Maria Eustice Ball
and her father was
John Eustice Ball.

I wonder what the connection is between the family's or is it just coincidence?

Cheers Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

I have recently received an "Odgers Family Chart" which was compiled by [I believe] the Odgers family that went to the USA.

It reads as follows:

First Generation
Joseph Odgers and Elizabeth Ann Dunstan.
Joseph Odgers - born 1859 in Cornwall, UK, Occupation - Stonemason
Joseph married Elizabeth Ann Dusntan - born in Trewithen Moor, Cornwall, UK - date of marriage not stated
They had the following children:
Isaac [Ike] 1885-1931
John H. 1881-


Second Generation
Isaac [Ike[ Odgers - born on Jan 18, 1885 in Cornwall, UK. Isaac married Hannah Maria Eustice Ball - no date given -
Isaac died April 10, 1931 in Portland Oregon aged 46 and Hannah died June 9, 1967 in Portland Oregon.


Reference is made to a 3rd generation which has no bearing on what I am about to relate.

It would appear that little research was done in that several items are either inconsistent or not included.
Isaac's birth registration was March q in Redruth [Stithians?] 1885
John H.'s birth registration was Sep. q. in Redruth [Stithians?] 1880

Elizabeth Ann's maiden name was Dunstone and the marriage was in Redruth district [Stithians?] Sep. q 1880

No reference is made to Hannah's name at the time of marriage to Isaac which was Norman or the date of marriage which appears to be prior the the birth of the 1st child in 1922.

With very much assistance from Thomasin, we have found a second family.
This one is for a family that emanated from a marriage between one Isaac Odgers and an Elizabeth Emily Uren]

This marriage took place and is registered as Sep. q 1880 Redruth district [Stithians?] He was as noted on 1881 & 1891 census likely to be born around 1860. I cannot locate a birth on freeBMD for either.

Their children were:
Sophia
Isaac J.
Mary Elizabeth
Bennet

What further compunds the issue is that several Odgers from Stithians or close by emigrated to the US: One such was
Isaac - May 12, 1912.

I have also on FreeBMD found some marriages in Redruth district that could have occurred prior to emigration to the US in 1912
June q 1906 - Isaac Joseph
Dec. q 1906 - Isaac

If I've totally confused everyone with this post, I'm sorry. Can anyone determine which parent[s] had which child so that I can order the right certificate?

Thanks so much

[MarkJ]

One quick comment Colin - don't put too much concern into the Dunstan/Dunstone name differences. The two are commonly interchanged - I have several headstones with Dunstone when their chidren married as Dunstan and vice versa.

I have Dunstan connections - mostly from Feock/Kea/Carnon Downs, but a few made it slightly further down towards Stithians

Mark

[MarkJ]

The 1891 census gives one of the Odgers families as -

Isaac Odgers,Head,M,31 Tin Miner,Employed,Stithians Cornwall,,
Elizth Emily Odgers,Wife,M 32 Stithians Cornwall,,
Sophy Odgers,Dau 10,Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Isaac J Odgers,Son 7 Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Mary Elizth Odgers,Dau 5,Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Bennett Odgers,Son,,4 Stithians Cornwall,,
Elizabeth Odgers,Mother,W,,65,Living On Own Means,,Wendron Cornwall

(details from COCP RG12/1845 folio 110 page 24)

As the wife is stated as being Elizabeth Emily, this is presumably the UREN lady.


I think you need to look at the 1901 and 1911 censuses to see if you can differentiate these families. I couldn't find the Joseph Odgers with a family - I suspect he is the one in the Miners Hospital as a patient at the time of the 1891 census - but I didn't look for the wife to be honest.


Mark

[Colin Rowledge]

The 1891 census gives one of the Odgers families as -

Isaac Odgers,Head,M,31 Tin Miner,Employed,Stithians Cornwall,,
Elizth Emily Odgers,Wife,M 32 Stithians Cornwall,,
Sophy Odgers,Dau 10,Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Isaac J Odgers,Son 7 Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Mary Elizth Odgers,Dau 5,Scholar Stithians Cornwall,,
Bennett Odgers,Son,,4 Stithians Cornwall,,
Elizabeth Odgers,Mother,W,,65,Living On Own Means,,Wendron Cornwall

(details from COCP RG12/1845 folio 110 page 24)

As the wife is stated as being Elizabeth Emily, this is presumably the UREN lady.

Mark

Correct on the above
Marriage reference is Sep q 1880 vol. 5c. page 333

The other is Joseph Odgers to Elizabeth Ann Dunstone
Marriage reference is Sep.q 1880 vol. 5c. page 338

Each set of parents had a a son named Isaac - one in Jun. q 1884 anf the other in Mar. q 1885

Cheers
Colin

[Colin Rowledge]

I think you need to look at the 1901 and 1911 censuses to see if you can differentiate these families. I couldn't find the Joseph Odgers with a family - I suspect he is the one in the Miners Hospital as a patient at the time of the 1891 census - but I didn't look for the wife to be honest.


Mark

Hi Mark

I do not have access to census records from Ancestry [presumably that's where they are]

Can someone do lookups for me?

Does this situation yet qualify as a 'brickwall' or just a little 'fence or stile' that needs to be climbed over?

[MarkJ]

I presume you mean the 1901 and 1911 census Colin? 1901 will be on pay sites such as Ancestry etc, but the 1911 is pay per view only - so if you wanted to check there, I would firstly use the free search on the 1911 site to see if the info looked promising before parting with any cash!

As you probably know, the 1841 to 1891 inclusive are freely available for Cornwall

Mark