Penny Family from Lancashire.

[flossmm]

That's great, and superbly thorough. As you have seen, George Penny and James Penny are frequent names, so armed with that info I'll see if there is anything else I can find.

Like yourself, we have a strong tradition of passing family info on down the generations, and where I have been able to evidence it, the traditions have all been essentially right, so then it's just a question of hunting through the info and, as you say, finding events in likely places. After that, maybe a trip to the records office in Preston (centre for lancashire records) which I hope to do one day in the future!

I'll give it a go in the evenings. Right now the sun is shining so I'll get out for a bit and enjoy it!

all the best

flo

[Ceolaiean]

Thanks a lot for this - much appreciated. What further records would be available in Preston? Civil registration only began in 1837 - do they have more church records than are available online? A couple of my cousins and myself were thinking of visiting Penny roots country - we could take in Preston and the records office if it might provide enlightenment.

Regards
Ceolaiean

[flossmm]

Right now I'm trying to find out as much as I can about the Penny families in Colton, to see what evidence we might need to look for. I don't know if Preston has the apprenticeship records but an 'apprentice engineer' might have indenture papers somewhere and microfiches of the originals might hold something, but it could be a long trawl for nothing! Also a lot of info gets copied from one source to another, as you might have found already. For example, the Lancs Online Parish Clerks seem to get some of their info from the LDS - ie the mormon records who, as you'll know, also provide the 'family search' website. On 'Ancestry' a lot of people just copy the family trees of others, without checking out or even quoting sources. So if a name is mis-transcribed once, or even missed because it is difficult to read, you might be lucky to spot it in an original or microfiche.
I'm also looking at colton, to try and find more about the different hamlets within the parish and work out which families lived where.
You've probably spotted that your George married by licence, which may have been because Preston wasn't his home parish. This helps to confirm that he came from Colton. It is definitely a name that is prevalent around the south of the Lake district.

Looking at the history of Colton, Nibthwaite, and places like that, they had been small semi-industrial areas, with small ironworks, bobbin mills and even gunpowder works! That seemed to be at the end of the 18th century so by the early 19th century it may already have started to decline and your George might have looked elsewhere for work. Preston was developing as an industrial centre, and though the railways came a bit later, it was a travel centre and may well have had a reputation for a place to find work.
we'll keep looking!

all the best

flo

[geneius]

What further records would be available in Preston

This site should give you an idea of the holding at the RO

https://new.lancashire.gov.uk/librari...rd-office.aspx

Civil registration only began in 1837 - do they have more church records than are available online?

They will have the Parish Registers ( orig source) always worth looking at there maybe a local note by the officiating minister & BT's ( transcribed form PR for Bishop)

Familysearch was predominately CoE so if the family followed a non conformist religion, you need to find the records

Lancs Online Parish Clerks seem to get some of their info from the LDS

My understanding of the site is that the records were transcribed by volunteers pre digitalisation, when only the IGI was available! I wouldn't dismiss the value of the site

m also looking at colton, to try and find more about the different hamlets within the parish and work out which families lived where.

genuki.org.uk

George married by licence,

If survived Lancs RO. My understanding is licences were for those who also did not wnat the Banns read out.....

8th century so by the early 19th century it may already have started to decline and your George might have looked elsewhere for work

A lot drifted towards Barrow as well for work on the docks One big employer was Vickers

[geneius]

Is this the family you are working with ?

24 April 1835
Preston Lancs
James PENNY s/o George ( a mechanic) & Mary Ann of Walton Street Preston

CheshireBMD
St Andrew Bebington
20 Oct 1856 James PENNY to Maria ARROWSMITH

What were their ages on marriage

Liverpool Daily Post
21 February 1857
On 14th February at Tranmere , Maria wife of James PENNY engineer of a daughter
presume this daughter Mary Ann b 1857 registered Wirrall

From Feebmd
Alice Ann b 1859
Mary Louisa 1862

I cannot find this family on the 1861 census in Birkenhead

[Ceolaiean]

Just came across this - it is rather old so sorry for delay (if anyone is still listening....)

This is indeed my family. James was born in 1835 and was 21 when he married but Maria was just 15 (born late 1841) although her marriage certificate says 16. Mary Luisa b 1862 which you mention is not one of James and Maria's children. They were already in Dublin in 1860, so not in the English census for 1861 and their (many) subsequent children do not appear in English records. They had two of their children (Alice Ann over a year old at the time and the newborn Isabella) baptised in the beautiful St George's church in Dublin in 1860. Their first child was Mary Elizabeth, born Q1 1857 in Tranmere. She was baptised in St John's Parish church in Preston (although her parents' residence in Tranmere is noted in the Preston church record). St John's was the parish church of James and his family in Preston. James probably returned there for the baptism for a family reunion. Mary Elizabeth died, aged 9, in Dublin and as was common at the time, James and Maria named their next daughter Mary Elizabeth after her.

[Spenny]

I feel confident that we share some lineage. I have all the connections from James Penny and Maria Arrowsmith, and a very diligent relative of mine has connected us back to George Penny and MaryAnne Boothman, and then we believe, James Penny and Alice Nicholson est b 1775. My lineage search brings us to Dublin, which, it seems, is where you lost your connection. I am still going through your messages though, maybe you found what you were looking for.

[Spenny]

HA! I was just about to respond to this when I saw that you responded already!!! Hello, cousin.

[Ceolaiean]

Hi. Good to hear from a Penny relation, however distant! I have traced my Penny ancestors to George Penny of Preston, who lived for a time in Walton Street. By good fortune, a Dublin great grand uncle of mine was visiting George's daughter one census night and is recorded as a relative, confirming the link I had already established as likely. You don't always get such luck in genealogical research! George was originally from Colton, Lancashire (according to 1851 census). George Penny was an engineer and was active in politics and various worthy causes, according to newspaper reports. He married Mary Ann Boothman in Preston in 1825. They originally lived in Walton Street but later moved to Great Avenham Street. Their house is still standing - I visited it a year or two ago. They had three daughters and a son, James, born 1834 (my 2x grandfather). Two of the daughters, Alice and Ann died young. The third, Elizabeth, survived and maintained contact with older generations of my family in Dublin. James married Maria Arrowsmith in 1856 in Tranmere. Maria was 15! Their first child, Mary Elizabeth, was born in Tranmere, 1857, but was baptised in St John's Preston, like all George Penny's family. Presumably, it was a Penny family celebration. Their next daughter, Alice Ann, was, I am guessing, named after James' two dead sisters. The family moved to Dublin ca 1860. Their descendants in Dublin were numerous. I am from a straight line of first-born sons all called James Penny, but the last James Penny (born 1913) was my uncle and had no sons. My mother was his sister. The Dublin Penny family was very conscious of its origins and various members wrote up genealogical notes, so we have not lost the thread since the move to Dublin. In fact, the family story since moving to Dublin is fairly well-known to the clan; it was the origins in England that were a mystery which I have tried to solve. I traced the family of George's wife, Mary Ann Boothman, back to her father, William Boothman, a cotton manufacturer who seemingly had pretensions and moved among Preston's elite. Mary Ann's grandparents were John and Ann Boothman, who seem to have come from somewhere outside Preston. If we also share Maria Arrowsmith as ancestor, I have a fair amount of information about her family also. They came originally from Stafford. Maria's father, George, was a printer, and I am sure that is how her husband James Penny, an engineer by profession like his own father George, got involved in print engineering in Dublin. That is undoubtedly why all the males in my Penny family became printers. I am very happy to share any information or research on the Dublin Penny-Arrowsmiths either the English or the Dublin branches. Let me know if I can help.

[Christine Knapp]

Thank you for the information,I haven't done the Penny side of my family for a long time.I am surprised that we may go back to Dublin my 97 year old mum will be fascinated with this info if it is correct.I was ruling out the Pennys who were slave traders and haven't got a connection yet.Look forward to seeing what turns up Regards Chris in Perth Western Australia