Penny Family from Lancashire.

[Christine Knapp]

Hi Lizzie, thanks heaps for your interest. I have been going round in circles with the penny family for a long time.My Jane Penny born 1815 @ Colton had a twin sister called Margaret and another sister Agnes bn. 10 August 1818. Jane Penny b.26th Feb 1815 married Thomas Leece. Their children were... William Penny Leece, James, Thomas, John,Alice, Moses, Mathaias,Margaret and Joseph.All I know is that Jane born 1815 has James Penny and wife Alice... as her parents..I have found a John Machell of Hollow Oak married Isabella Penny of Penny Bridge. He was trustee of iron ore mines @ Nibthwaite. Is this your lot? I also found a James penny Machell who married a Anne Penny of Liverpool. As you say, they are all over the place, I just can't put mine together, most frustrating. Talk soon. Regards Christine

[flossmm]

Hi, I am a new member of this site, and I have Penny ancestors.

My ancestors include George Penny, born 1797, whose father was James Penny, and his was Richard Penny. George trained as an Excise officer, and qualified in 1819 - we have his qualification certificate. James was a farmer and 'mechanic' and he died by falling off a roof he was mending. I have a photocopy of a newspaper article about this, which is in a record office.

I have quite a bit of information about this family, and will assemble it and send it to anyone who is interested.

If people are still following this line up, I'd be delighted to share info.

Flo

[daggers]

I've just come across this thread, and am interested in the Penny/Machell link, as they appear in my tree, not as ancestors but out on a branch not well studied so far. If anyone also links with the Knott or Ford families, from the Colton/Satterthwaite part of old Furness, I would be glad to share what I have, which has names but few dates, mainly 19th century.

D

[Grandange]

James Penny of Liverpool-the slaver and merchant was a relation-poss cousin of the Pennybridge Pennys as was Allen Penney and his descendants of Lancaster where William P was mayor 2/3 times c 1700 and left endowment for William Penney/s almshouses in Penny St Angela

[Grandange]

Alos you will find lots of info-though not sorted at all on the Nat Archives site A2A-tap in Penney and lancs and see what turns up-hope you all have plenty of spare time! A

[Ceolaiean]

Hello Christine,

I just came across this post - it is about 5 years old so maybe you have found all the info you need and are no longer interested in this topic. Even if this is so, maybe you can help me? I am almost certain (almost, though not 100%) that the George Penny of Nibthwaite you mention (son of James Penny), is my gt-gt-gt-gt grandfather. I can trace my family with certainty to my gt-gt-gt-grandfather, James Penny, engineer, who married Maria Arrowsmith in 1856. (This couple later moved to Dublin, Ireland, and founded a long line of James Pennys of which the latest were my grandfather and uncle). Their marriage certificate says James' father was "George Penny, engineer". The most likely candidate for this George I found via the English census is George Penny of Preston, engineer, who Married Mary Ann Boothman in 1825 in Preston, though in the 1851 census, it says George was born in Colton (the area with includes Nibthwaite). It would be possible that he became a machinist/engineer as a youth as there were ironworks in Nibthwaite, and he could have moved to Preston attracted by the expanding cotton industry there. I have used the online church registers of Holy Trinity church in Colton to place a George Penny's baptism in 1797. The dates are not entirely consistent with the ages for "my" George in Preston as given in the later censuses, but I have learned not to trust census ages too implicitly. In any case, he is the only George Penny I can trace born in Colton for the appropriate range of years. This George is son of James Penny, and brother to the other children you mention (Moses, Alice, etc.) so it seems to be the same family.

If in the intervening years you have found any further information about this family, I would really appreciate it if you could share it with me. I am planning a trip to the area in the coming months and would love to know as much as possible about the family connections. Like you, I also wondered about possible connections to James Penny the slaver, originally from nearby Ulverston. I do not think there is a direct family link, but there were/are many Pennys in the Ulverston area so there could be a distant connection.

Kind regards
Ceolaiean

Hi Georgie,thanks for the contact. Coniston is the name of the area near the Lake District where a lot of my family come from. Brown Hall is or was a building at Coniston where someone by the name of George Penny lived.The info I found said "it was the property and occassional residence of George Penny Esquire, it is a pleasant mansion in the township on the the banks of the lake Coniston, the chapel is now a school". I have a small map of the area and it looks like Nibthwaite is not far from there. The Penny families also lived at Penny Bridge Hall.My James Penny b. c 1775 and his wife Alice Nicholson were married at Colton.They then must have been at Nibthwaite and had my gt gt grandmother and her twin sister in 1815 and other children. I have been going round in circles with this family for a long time.There must be somebody connected to this family somewhere in the area. I am trying to work out if they are connected to James penny the Slaver or not.The other info I have been given has different dates for James Penny and Alice Nicholson.They are James penny 1772 forge carpenter,married Alice Nicholson b 1774. The children were George b.1797, Moses and Alice b. 1804, Margaret and Jane b. 1815, and Agnes b.1818.This seems to be more likely my family.Well I've prattled on enough. Be great if anyone out there can help us. I am doing this research for my mum who is 89 soon and loves to talk about back home. She was born in Keswick.Regards Christine.

[flossmm]

Hi Ceolaiean

I am also of the Penny family of Nibthwaite. James, born in 1775 in Nibthwaite, Colton, Lancs is a direct ancestor, and his son George Penny, born 1797, is my Gt gt grandfather (our family has always married and had children a bit late.) I have information passed down through the family about George, including his qualification as an Excise Officer, in 1819, and a copy of the will of james, in which he leaves George One Shilling, with no more ever to be given to George or his descendents! They must have fallen out but we don't know why. I don't think George ever had anything to do with his family again. George married Margaret Marsh at Hanmer in flintshire, on the English/Welsh border, and we have a page from the family bible, giving the time and place of birth and baptism of each child they had. We have their original marriage lines from 1826!

I have found, on 'Ancestry', the George married to Mary Ann Boothman, and James, Married to Maria Arrowsmith. It also says that they went on to Dublin, as you say. This is a different George from the George, son of James of Nibthwaite. I have information on james of Nibthwaite, and he was a 'mechanic'. We have a copy of the newspaper which gave the news of his death in 1849, when he fell from a roof. But I think they were all part of a big family where names were indeed repeated in each generation, so uncles, cousins, and grandfathers often have the same name. I will see if I can find anything else about 'your' james and george. They are probably all part of the same family.
It's great to be in touch with more of our wide Penny family.
flo

[Ceolaiean]

Wow! I didn't expect a reply so soon. Thanks for this - it rules out George b.1797 as my James' father which saves me barking up the wrong tree. Pity though - he seems quite a character and I have not been able to find another George born in Colton at about the right time. I've been looking in online church registers but these are not always complete.

I am now about 99.5% certain that George Penny, machinist/engineer of Preston is my James' father. My mother was a Dublin Penny, descended from a long line of James Pennys. James and Maria were family lore for me in Dublin. Older members of my family wrote out quite detailed genealogies starting from their arrival in Dublin. Tracing back pre-Dublin is the challenge. There do seem to be a lot of Pennys in the Ulverston/Colton area so we are probably remote cousins. I'd love to have any more information you might have about my lot.

Kind regards
Ceolaiean

[flossmm]

Hi Ceolaiean

I have been looking at the James and George Penny entries for this period in the north west of england and you are right, there are a lot and it is easy to confuse them all. You say you have the marriage certificate or james Penny and maria Arrowsmith - can you tell me please where they married, as this might help me identify the right George. I've noticed that there is a James married to a Maria with a different surname - can I just check that you know it is Maria Arrowsmith, rather than a maria with another surname.
Thanks
flo

[Ceolaiean]

Hello Flo. Thanks so much for your continuing interest and offers of help.

Regarding your query on my great-great grandfather, James Penny's wife - I am absolutely certain she was Maria Arrowsmith. This is ancient family lore among the Dublin Pennys. I remember as a child my grandmother telling me about James Penny and Maria Arrowsmith coming to Dublin from England. The Arrowsmith name stuck in my mind, being so unusual. Then, several previous generation Penny clan members have passed down extensive genealogical notes on the Dublin Pennys, including details of the marriage of James Penny and Maria Arrowsmith. Further proof is provided by Dublin church registers. When registering a marriage, the Irish church records include the maiden name of the mother of each of the bridal pair (a great genealogical boon!). "Maria Arrowsmith" is registered as mother of my great grandfather, James ("the younger") in his marriage record. She is also registered as mother of many of James' other children - she had 12 in all! One of them was even named "George Arrowsmith Penny" (Maria's father was George Arrowsmith, according to her marriage certificate).

My aim was to trace the antecedents of James and Maria - something no family members in Dublin seem to know anything about. I first established James' date of birth as 1834/35, though his death and probate records in Dublin (he died aged 62 in 1896). I then started out from the marriage certificate of James and Maria, who married in 1856 in Bebington, the Wirral, Cheshire. The certificate names James' father as "George Penny, Engineer" and by extensive searches of the 1841 and 1851 censuses, I am about 95% certain that George Penny of Preston is the candidate that fits the bill. He is the only George Penny I found who is an engineer and who has a son James born in 1834/35. In addition, in the 1851 census, George's son James (now 16) is described as an apprentice engineer. This also tallies as James Penny who married Maria Arrowsmith was, like his father, described in as an engineer on his marriage cert. Further confirmation of this family connection is the fact that James and Maria's first child was baptised in St Johns church, Preston, although they are stated in the church register to be resident in Cheshire. St John's was the parish church of George Penny, where all his own children were baptised.

But tracing Preston George's family roots has proved difficult. The censuses indicate his date of birth as either 1803 or 1806 (they are often inconsistent, I find). In the 1851 census, George is clearly stated to have been born in Colton, Lancashire and this is where the trail goes cold. I don't find any George Pennys of the correct birth date(s) born in Colton. There is one born 1804 in Alithwaite - but that seems a bit far from Colton. Also, the parents' names (Isaac and Dorothy Penny) seem alien to our family, where certain familiar names recur across the generations. Of course, George's family could have moved to Colton from somewhere else after his birth and George just remembered Colton as his childhood home. In this case, searching for his family is a bit of a wild goose chase. Church registers may not always be complete either.

Sorry for writing such a saga but that is the state of my research so far. If you can help in any way, I'd be very grateful but regardless, it was nice meeting you!

Kind regards
Ceolaiean