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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenia View Post
    Hi Marion,

    Sorry I do not have the address of the Catholic Probation Services. The copy of the letter I have was in Dennis's file that we were able to get on a visit to the Catholic Children' Society. The address for them is Catholic Children's Society
    49 Russell Hill Road
    PURLEY
    Surrey
    CR8 2XB
    We found them very helpful, so maybe you will find something there.

    best wishes Hillary
    Thank you for the address I will contact them shortly.
    Best wishes Marion

  2. #22
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
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    4

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    Hi Marion,

    Your latest note about the Wheeler family living in 54 Forster Road, West Croydon sounds like the right one.
    Louisa's [Augusta] brother Tom mentions a stepfather on an old letter that was in Dennis's file, and Dennis's Grandmother who died about 1924 was Mary Jane Parr. Mr. Parr's name could possibly have been William, as when Dennis was living with Mary Jane he was registered at the White Horse junior school as Dennis William Parr and his guardian was named as Louisa. They were living at 27 Nursery Road Thornton Heath at the time.
    Help!!!! another name change. You said that Thomas Wheeler was deceased on Bertha's marriage certificate. So maybe you have found your family!!!
    Hope this has been some help. Eugenia

  3. #23

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    Dear Eugenia,

    Many thanks for your last post.

    I also think this is the right family and at last some pieces of the jigsaw are starting to come together. I still very much regret not contacting you sooner but at the time I was under the impression that my grandmother Janet and her sister Florence were the only two Roach children and I did not feel that I had any information I could help you with. If only I could have known how wrong I was going to be proved.

    Finding out from you that Louisa was also a Roach/e was very enlightening and then when you told me Louisa was also known as Augusta Louisa it made it easier to search for the family.

    Finding the Roach family on the 1901 census in Newhaven Sussex was wonderful. There were however three things on this census that didn't fit. One of these was the mothers name which should have been Jane but was down as Bertha. The second was Florence had been born in Reading, Berkshire and not Birmingham and the third was the fact that Augusta Louisa was said also to have been born in Birmingham but on her birth certificate it said Norwich.

    Then looking back through my file I came across the 1911 census I had saved because it was in Croydon I saw the birth date for Bertha the daughter was exactly the same as on the 1901 census the surnames were different and her birthplace but it just felt right.
    I could not find a Bertha Wheeler born in Birmingham in 1894 but I did find a Bertha Roach born in1894 in Carmarthenshire, Wales. Then finding the wedding banns for Bertha with her mothers name down as Mary Jane Wheeler it began to take shape.
    On Bertha's marriage banns her deceased father Thomas Wheeler's occupation was down as a labourer but in the 1901 Sussex census he was down as a docker but in the 1911 census he and his wife are described as being pedlars.

    I think there can't be much doubt that Thomas Wheeler and Thomas Roach are the same person so with all the name changes and all the moving around it leads me to think that the family was trying to keep one step ahead of the authorities for some reason.

    I wonder if you can give me your thoughts on this.

    Best wishes Marion

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by marionandpaul View Post
    Dear Eugenia,

    Many thanks for your last post.

    I also think this is the right family and at last some pieces of the jigsaw are starting to come together. I still very much regret not contacting you sooner but at the time I was under the impression that my grandmother Janet and her sister Florence were the only two Roach children and I did not feel that I had any information I could help you with. If only I could have known how wrong I was going to be proved.

    Finding out from you that Louisa was also a Roach/e was very enlightening and then when you told me Louisa was also known as Augusta Louisa it made it easier to search for the family.

    Finding the Roach family on the 1901 census in Newhaven Sussex was wonderful. There were however three things on this census that didn't fit. One of these was the mothers name which should have been Jane but was down as Bertha. The second was Florence had been born in Reading, Berkshire and not Birmingham and the third was the fact that Augusta Louisa was said also to have been born in Birmingham but on her birth certificate it said Norwich.

    Then looking back through my file I came across the 1911 census I had saved because it was in Croydon I saw the birth date for Bertha the daughter was exactly the same as on the 1901 census the surnames were different and her birthplace but it just felt right.
    I could not find a Bertha Wheeler born in Birmingham in 1894 but I did find a Bertha Roach born in1894 in Carmarthenshire, Wales. Then finding the wedding banns for Bertha with her mothers name down as Mary Jane Wheeler it began to take shape.
    On Bertha's marriage banns her deceased father Thomas Wheeler's occupation was down as a labourer but in the 1901 Sussex census he was down as a docker but in the 1911 census he and his wife are described as being pedlars.

    I think there can't be much doubt that Thomas Wheeler and Thomas Roach are the same person so with all the name changes and all the moving around it leads me to think that the family was trying to keep one step ahead of the authorities for some reason.

    I wonder if you can give me your thoughts on this.

    Best wishes Marion
    I found the marriage between William Parr and Jane Garland in Croydon in the third quarter of 1913 yesterday. If this is our Jane is seems she may never have been married to Thomas Wheeler/Roach.

  5. #25

    Default School enquiry

    Hi all,
    This is a long shot, but here goes. I am researching my Father-in-law’s maternal side, the Butler family. William Henry Butler was married to Mary Ann Baxter in the Aston suburb of Birmingham and the family appear on the 1901 Census in that area. Two of their children Doris (b.1897) and Frances/Fanny (b.1900) appear to be at St Mary’s Industrial School, Wellesley Road, Croydon on the 1911 Census. Remarkably coincidentally, I went to St Marys RC High School in Woburn Road, off Wellesley Road in Croydon, leaving in 1982!
    I am trying to establish how they came to being there and cannot find any records relating to the Industrial School. I see someone has given an address for the Catholic Children’s Society and wondered if that had been useful to anyone on this thread?
    So, in a nutshell, I am trying to find out whatever I can about the school. I also noted that another family mentioned in this thread originate from Aston too, another coincidence? Thanks in anticipation!
    Ali


    Quote Originally Posted by marionandpaul View Post
    Dear Eugenia,
    Do you still have the address of the Catholic probation services as I would like to see if there are any records of my grandmother.
    Are you a member of ancestry because on the 1911 census Louisa, Florence and Jane (Janet) are all on the Institution Transcript for St Mary's Industrial School.
    Louisa is 13 years old
    Florence is 10 years old
    Jane is 6 years old
    My grandmother also emigrated to Canada in her early twenties but came back three years later after a failed love affair. She arrived back in about 1929.
    My grandmother had a hearing problem which started when she was in her twenties and may have been hereditary. She was also quite striking to look at so there may be a family likeness. My mother also had red hair which could have come from her father who I never met but may be a family trait.

  6. #26

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    You ask about St Mary’s Industrial School, Wellesley Road, Croydon on the 1911 Census, and the Catholic Children’s Society

    Recent legislation has made it impossible for some Catholic organisations to continue to provide child care services. The Southwark Archdiocesan Archives (http://www.rcsouthwark.co.uk/contacts.html ) make the following statement -

    The Archdiocesan archives do not hold school records or any adoption records. Adoption records may be held by the Diagrama Foundation Enquiries should be made to them in writing to
    5th Floor*
    Anchorage House
    High Street
    Chatham*
    ME4 4LE
    [endquote]

    If this organisation is unable to help, then it is possible that the Archdiocesan Archives MIGHT be able to suggest where any records may be.

  7. #27

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    Many thanks Jim for your reply.

  8. #28
    Settling in
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Hessen, Germany
    Posts
    15

    Default Wheelers and Butlers

    I was debating whether or not to post in this thread - it could just be coincidence but ...

    I was sure I had some "Wheeler"s in my tree - I checked and indeed I do. Louisa Mary Ann Wheeler b. March 1873 in Lambeth, Surrey. She is the mother-in-law of 1st cousin 1x removed. But the coincidence (apart from the name Louisa and the location in Surrey) was her fathers name - Alexander Gustavus Butler Wheeler.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliMac View Post
    Hi all,
    This is a long shot, but here goes. I am researching my Father-in-law’s maternal side, the Butler family.
    Ali
    As I say, probably just coincidence

  9. #29

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    Ummm? There are definitely some similarities Speigel. I juts had a quick look up on A.G.B. Wheeler and it seems he spent his life in the Lambeth area. He was born, married and died there and his occupation was gun maker, so no links to Aston. Looking at births around 1844, there is one for Alexander Wheeler in 1843 in Lambeth. Mother's maiden name is Allen, so not Butler as I thought that might be why he had Butler as a middle name. Gustavus is an uncommon name, sounds German?
    Ali

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