John Rivotta, born around 1910?

[Jonesy]

EDIT - the burial is also entered in the St Pancras parish burial register, on Ancestry. Address - 37 Thanet Street. So you've probably got this already, sorry!

I didn't have - thank you!!

[Jonesy]

Brother Ernest's date of birth is also different; on the school records it's 16th Feb 1888, yet a calculation from his service records, and his birth registration, has the year as 1887.

Further to this. Originally raised in this thread, evidently Ernest was baptised at Hauxton on 19th June 1898 (this would be after both birth parents, Joseph and Maud, had passed away).

His father Joseph's occupation is described as "bill discounter (deceased)", his date of birth is 15th Feb 1887.

In the margin of the baptism record, it apparently says "Waifs and Strays Society conditional baptism".

Why he was in Cambridgeshire at this time I don't know, but for whatever reason, he maybe stayed or returned in 1915, when he signed up for WW1.

Courtesy of FMP, via the Cambridgeshire Family History Society.

[Kerrywood]

Ernest was baptised at Hauxton on 19th June 1898 (this would be after both birth parents, Joseph and Maud, had passed away).

That's a great find!

In the margin of the baptism record, it apparently says "Waifs and Strays Society conditional baptism".

It looks like he might have been taken into care after Maud had died. He would only have been 10. 'Conditional' baptism was often done by schools/institutions, just as a precaution in case a child had been 'missed' before.

For the Waifs and Strays Society, you might want to look here. Maybe they have some records?
www.
hiddenlives.org.uk

[benny1982]

We were just talking on another thread about dates of births given being wrong. I think the month and day was more likely to be correct than the year ie in school records, 1939 National Card regs and that. Of course baptism registers can give DOB and if they were born after July 1837 they should have a birth cert. Even then some people may have fudged the date so it fell in the 42 days to avoid a late registration penalty.

That Rivolta baptism is a good example. Rivolta sounds like Travolta, if it was you may have been sitting on a goldmine lol if related to John.

[Jonesy]

Rivolta sounds like Travolta, if it was you may have been sitting on a goldmine lol if related to John.

As my grandfather grew up as John Rivolta, you can imagine the sorts of hits I get when I Google his name. "Do you mean John Travolta, etc...

[Jonesy]

I have some more information. From Ernest’s baptism records (he is Ruby’s brother), I knew he’d been conditionally baptised via the Waifs and Stray Society (now the Children’s Society), in Hauxton Cambridgeshire. But I didn’t know why.

After a wait of around 6 months, I’ve received the details of Ernest’s file from the Children’s Society. They have also, kindly, provided details of his sister Gertrude’s file.

So as a reminder, the 1901 census shows the children Ernest, Gertude and Ruby (my great-grandmother?) Rivolta living with their aunt, Elizabeth Knight at Stroud Green Road, Hornsey – see post #14. In 1898, the aunt refers Ernest and Gertrude to the Waifs and Stray Society, as she states she cannot look after them any longer due to (her) ill health.

She says she has been looking after all 3 of them since the death of their parents – what I don’t understand is why she is only referring Ernest and Gertrude (Ruby is 13 years old at this time).

In 1898, Ernest ends up being boarded out in Hauxton, Cambridgeshire (hence the baptism there), under the supervision of Miss Evelyn M Ward. He is later with a Mrs Starr.

Meanwhile, Gertude is also accepted by the society, and in 1898 was boarded out to foster parents, Mr and Mrs Claxton of Southgate, which answers:

yet in 1901, only Gertrude is to be found, boarding with this family:

Richard Claxton head 38, Constable, Met Police, b. Kenninghall, Norfolk

Hannah Claxton wife 41, b. Coggeshall, Essex

Gertrude Rivolta boarder 11 scholar, b London

Emily Dove boarder, 6, b London, ???

Rose Cottages, Southgate, Christchurch, Middlesex

Class: RG13; Piece: 1268; Folio: 75; Page: 32.

By August 1900 and again in February 1901, Elizabeth Knight is in correspondence with the society as to when Ernest might be returned to her, as she states that she has “succeeded in obtaining promise of two influential men to assist me getting Ernest into an office when he is old enough to leave school”, and that “the boy seems very happy at Hauxton...still as he has 2 sisters I think they ought to be near each other if possible”.

Clearly from the 1901 census, he is back with his aunt and sister Ruby at Stroud Green Rd.

Gertude is still with the Claxtons in 1904; meanwhile a Mrs Jane Harding Knight is writing to the society from 3 Finsbury Road, and is concerned about Gertrude’s welfare, as a Miss E.W.Reeve (Gertude’s sponsor) is trying to remove Gertrude.

Gertrude writes a letter in 1904 (I’m not sure to whom exactly; perhaps the sponsor Miss Reeve?) about being placed in service with a Mrs Sharpe, Blagdens Lane, High Street Southgate. She writes from Rose Cottage, Chase Road, Old Southgate, which must be the same address she’s at with the Claxtons in 1901.

It is ultimately Ruby I am most interested in; after all, it is she I suspect is my great-grandmother. So unfortunately I still don’t know what happened to her between living with her aunt Elizabeth Knight in 1901, and the birth of Jack in 1908.

Why did the aunt only refer on Ernest and Gertrude to the Waifs and Strays Society? Ruby would have only been 13 at the time. Would this have been regarded as old enough to fend herself?

I cannot find Elizabeth Knight on the 1911 census. As this is the case and also she speaks of her “ill health” in her letter of 1900, perhaps she passed away. But I don’t yet have a definite death (there are a number of deaths on Ancestry for an Elizabeth Knight between 1901 and 1911, where the year of birth is around 1843).

Who is Mrs Jane Harding Knight? I assume a relative of Elizabeth Knight, but in what context?

Still perhaps more questions than answers…

[barmy76]

Did you ever solve the mystery of Jack Wills? Ive read the whole thread and feel as if I have ended on a cliffhanger !

[Jonesy]

Heir hunter?