The death of FLORENCE TREASA FRAY-COGGINS

[Paul M]

This thread was 'bumped' in August 2018. Post #18 onwards.

The info I have on Florence Treasa (bear with me)
Born 2/12/1901 Hartlepool, I have the birth certificate
Brother, Frederick Frances b 11/7/1903 Hartlepool, I have the birth certificate

Florence had a child, Ronnie Fray b 17/9/1921 no father, I have the birth certificate.

In 1923 she had Eric Fray, by this time she was living with Frederick Wilmer Coggins in Rotherham, they did not marry.
After this time she had 4 more children 1924-1927-1930-1932 including my mother, all raised as Coggin/s in Rotherham.

On 20/6/1936 she married Edwin Coggins in Rotherham (Frederick Wilmer’s younger cousin) I have the certificate.
Edwin remarried Emily Bagnall 27/3/1954 in Rotherham, he states on the marriage certificate that he is a widower.

Free BMD search=
Birth Agnes Josephine Fray jun 1907 Reading
Death Agnes Josephine Fray 2 yrs dec 1909 Reading

1911 Census search=
Josephine Fray 3 in 1911 census, Reading
Florence 9
Frederick 7
Agnes 32
Bertie 32
All living at 127 Sherwood St Reading

I did a Free BMD search and can not find any other Agnes or Josephine born in ANY ditrict around this time.

There is a big problem, Josephine appears to be borne 1907 died 1909 but 3 years old in the 1911 census what am I doing wrong.


Now the stuff that may be fact.

Edwin at some time came to see my mother to find out what had happened to Florence because he wanted to remarry.
Edwin employed a private detective to find her; he reported back that Florence had perished in the last air raid WW2 on Liverpool (10/1/1942).

Can anyone help with finding her death?
I have searched for her death in Free BMD, Ancestry, microfiche at the library,
The National Archives on line and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

[Jan1954]

Right - from the above, would I be correct in surmising that we are looking for the death of Florence COGGINS?

[Paul M]

You got it in one Jan

[Sue Mackay]

I did a Free BMD search and can not find any other Agnes or Josephine born in ANY ditrict around this time.

There is a big problem, Josephine appears to be borne 1907 died 1909 but 3 years old in the 1911 census what am I doing wrong.

Have you looked at the actual image of the 1911 census or just the index? I am no expert on the 1911 census, as very few of my lot were on it, but I understand that some people listed all their children, even those deceased.

[Paul M]

did not look at the actual image of the 1911 census, i will pay to view when i have more than one question for the site.
ps
dose it make any difference in serches if she was catholic.

[ChristineR]

I also believe that the names (or numbers) of deceased children are asked for in the 1911 census.

[Jan1954]

Edwin employed a private detective to find her; he reported back that Florence had perished in the last air raid WW2 on Liverpool (10/1/1942).

Just checked the GRO for that quarter - no death of Florence recorded there.

[Sue Mackay]

Edwin employed a private detective to find her; he reported back that Florence had perished in the last air raid WW2 on Liverpool (10/1/1942).

The name COGGINS is registered with the Guild of One Name Studies. Might be worth a try as members usually collect all BMDs of the name.

Failing that, as you are in Blackpool, could you get to a library that holds copies of the Liverpool newspapers for 1942? They may well have named those who perished in the air raids.

[*bunty*]

I checked the CWGC site as they list civilian war dead and I did not find anyone by the name Coggins or Fray in the civilian casualties. After a quickl Google it appears the Liverpool Records Office has the list of civilian deaths, so you might be able to double check there.

[tree-top]

[QUOTE=Paul M;248476]

Free BMD search=
Birth Agnes Josephine Fray jun 1907 Reading
Death Agnes Josephine Fray 2 yrs dec 1909 Reading

1911 Census search=
Josephine Fray 3 in 1911 census, Reading
Florence 9
Frederick 7
Agnes 32
Bertie 32
All living at 127 Sherwood St Reading

I did a Free BMD search and can not find any other Agnes or Josephine born in ANY ditrict around this time.
There is a big problem, Josephine appears to be borne 1907 died 1909 but 3 years old in the 1911 census what am I doing wrong.


Hi Paul!

AGNES Josephine Fray was born in June 1907 and died in Dec 1909 aged 2

The JOSEPHINE Fray that you found on the 1911 census was possibly a different child named after her dead sister.

This would be possible if the mother was heavily pregnant when Agnes Jospehine died and gave the new child her dead daughters middle name (Josephine) for her christian name as a mark of respect.

As for her being 3, more often than not the parents told/wrote incorrect ages. I think the 1911 was actually written by the occupants instead of an enumerator so its possible that the father wrote the details down on the form and got his childs age wrong. I know here at my house that my husband never gets our four childrens ages right (and he can read and write) but back in 1911 not everyone was brilliant at the 3 R's! So maybe there is a little error there, just to confuse you?

You do find a lot of people way back when calling their child the same christian name as a dead one. I have 2 Joseph Fosters and 2 John Fosters born to the same parents. Each child taking the first name of a previous dead brother iyswim

Hope i've helped a bit

Teresa