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  1. #1
    MythicalMarian
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    Default Recording Reference Numbers 1911

    The new census pages, when we download them from the site, have a very long reference number attached. Do any of our experts know which parts we need to record in our family history software programs?

    Example: (RG14PN24403 RG78PN1400 RD468 SD7 ED1 SN205) !!!!

    Which bits would I record for my source citation? Am I correct in thinking we should take the RG14 section at the beginning of this? Or would it be correct to record RG14 SD7 ED1? The difference with this census, of course, is that we don't have any folio or page numbers on the actual sheets.

    Thanks for your help, as always.

  2. #2
    Alexandrina
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    The correct citation for the census page with showing the household above would be RG14/24403 Schedule 205. The RD (Registration District), SD (Sub-district) and ED (Enumeration District) are not needed to identify the household, because the schedule number is unique within that PN (Piece Number).

    This is The National Archives correct method of citation (See 'Census - the expert guide' by Peter Christian and David Annal'). On the 1911 Census site the Census Reference part of the Advanced Search facility only seems to work if you quote the RD, SD and ED as well, but this is just a function of the website.

    The RG78 part of the reference is to the Enumerator's Summary Book, which is the equivalent of the title page of the Enumeration Book in earlier census years, but is much more detailed. These are not available on the site yet, but according to the official 1911 blog they will be added later.

    To be on the safe side, you might want to quote the whole of the RG14 reference (PN, RD, SD, ED and SN) because it will be quite some time before 1911 is available on any other site. But RG14/24403/205 is technically correct.

    Lexy

  3. #3
    MythicalMarian
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    Thank you, Lexy - a very comprehensive explanation. I am grateful to you.

  4. #4
    Geoffers
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    I had just typed a reply and hit submit, when the forums threw a wobbly and my reply disappeared into the ether.

    Basically - as per Alexandrina's reply above.

    There are other parts of the reference that you were given and in case you are curious these can be explained as follows:

    RG78/1400 is the reference to the enumerator's summary book.
    TNA's catalogue describes the area covered by this class/piece number - it covers a sub-district

    The RD468 SD7 ED1 part of the reference you give is the former reference for the census. Each county appears to have been split into named areas which covered one or more registration districts. Each district was split into smaller sub-districts and each sub-district into enumerators' districts.

    As each enumeration district is now given an individual piece number (up to five digits) - the RD/SD/ED are no longer strictly needed.

    I record everything in spreadsheets and use two columns to note the reference RG14/24403 and sch.205

    The other parts of the reference can be found (if needed) using TNA's catalogue

  5. #5
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    People may be interested in the National Archive's explanation of the way the records are arranged. This can be found in the catalogue under RG 78.

    https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...llDetails=True

  6. #6
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
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    Default Thank you for your clear explanations

    I know this is many years later, but I have just come across this post. All the answers are so well explained. A big thank you.

  7. #7

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    This is exactly the reason we don't delete threads - except those started by spammers!
    Sadly, our dear friend Ann (alias Ladkyis) passed away on Thursday, 26th. December, 2019.
    Footprints on the sands of time

  8. #8
    A fountain of knowledge
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    Thanks for drawing attention to this thread, I hadn't seen it before but like you I am grateful for the clear explanation.

    Oh! Welcome to Brit-Gen.

  9. #9
    Loves to help with queries
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    The explanation is quite helpful, since some census sheet images are difficult for me to document from the image data alone. And, I doubt that the various districts and towns are helpful in locating the specific record. I believe most cites provide images with file names that follow the convention described previously. So, I presume that that info is enough to identify the specific page. Sure makes citing easier.

    I do have a companion question.. I have some old images from the government PRO website days and I believe that migrated to a new site and then to FindMypast. I know FamilySearch references Findmypast via an extended citation. Seems Findmypast is the site containing the actual images that all the others reference.

    Is Findmypast actually the “new” incarnation of the old PROsite from which I purchased records?

  10. #10
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by History_Hunter View Post
    The explanation is quite helpful, since some census sheet images are difficult for me to document from the image data alone.
    That's why you also have a transcription page which should provide the full reference.
    Basically 1841 census reference number should look similar to HO107/1345/9 folio 12 page 8
    1851 will be HO107/326 folio 64 page 101
    1861-1901 will be RG followed by the year code (9-13) e.g. RG11/432 folio 87 page 65 for 1881 census
    1911 will be RG14/11397 SN62 or RG14/PN11397 SN62
    https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...ensus-records/
    specifically section 11

    And, I doubt that the various districts and towns are helpful in locating the specific record. I believe most cites provide images with file names that follow the convention described previously. So, I presume that that info is enough to identify the specific page. Sure makes citing easier.
    All you should need is the reference as per the examples quoted above. Both Ancestry and FMP have boxes in which you can enter the piece/folio/page number. On FMP, you have to search the specific census so in the top banner, click search, and from the drop-down menu select A-Z records sets, then search/select (year) England and Wales census.

    I do have a companion question.. I have some old images from the government PRO website days and I believe that migrated to a new site and then to FindMypast.
    Can you provide an example of the type of document you mean? e.g. was it a census image, WWI soldier's service record

    I know FamilySearch references Findmypast via an extended citation. Seems Findmypast is the site containing the actual images that all the others reference.
    I don't know how strongly linked the LDS is to the transcriptions on FMP. e.g. were they responsible for some of the indexing of the 1911 census, or whether FMP have given their transcriptions to the LDS in return for the LDS providing a link back to FMP''s site.

    Ancestry's indexing was done independently (which is why you get differences, leading to you being able to find Joe Bloggs very easily on one site, but not on the other until you enter the census reference and find him indexed as James Slogy.)

    Is Findmypast actually the “new” incarnation of the old PROsite from which I purchased records?
    The answer to that is a resounding and emphatic 'no'.
    I assumed that was the PRO is now The National Archives (TNA). Confirmed by
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Record_Office

    FMP is a purely commercial company which, like Ancestry and other commercial sites, has a licence to use images of documents held by TNA.
    I think all documents held by TNA are Crown Copyright, which is why you see the copyright trademark followed by 'Crown copyright Images reproduced by courtesy of The National Archives, London, England' on every image page. Usually in the bottom left-hand corner.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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