Lilley, how to do a look up of an area???

[NicaG]

Hi
I have a copy of my g/grandads baptism certificate dated ( I think) Nov 5th 1835 and it shows his father as a dairy man and their place of abode as 'Little Earle'. Not sure I am reading it correctly but I think I am. I am wondering if this is a farm or possibly a village. Is there any way I can 'trace' it?????
It is the Parish of St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex.
Thanks xxx

[ChristineR]

Have you found them in the 1841 census?
What does the census say about your ggdad's place of birth in 1851? that could narrow down the area if he was baptised some distance from home.

[SBSFamilyhistory]

hi

what is the g/grandfathers name please?

[Peter Goodey]

St Martin-in-the-Fields is a rather famous church in Westminster. There was nothing rural about it in 1835 so you're not looking for a farm or village.

I think I would want to see the document for myself.

What is the source of the certificate?

[Colin Moretti]

Earle St is now known as EARLHAM St; west of Seven Dials it was Little Earle St, east was Great Earle St. (Source: A to Z of Regency London) It was not at all unusual to have cows kept for milk in built up areas at that time, refrigeration was a bit of a problem

Colin

[Colin Moretti]

1851 there was a dairyman, Joseph SMITH, at 32 Little Earle St (PO Directory), since you know the name it will be worth checking other directories

Colin

[Colin Moretti]

And then there's this extract from Victorian London:

Now and then, a man and girl driving a couple of very clean cows came round and drew milk from the udder straight into customers' jugs, or at least into a measure that was at once emptied into the jugs. That might be supposed to be a very direct, honest procedure, calculated to render adulteration laws vain and nugatory; but our milkman said that if people could only see the quantity of water "them poor cows" were compelled to drink before starting, they would cease to wonder that the milk was so thin and blue. For many years after this - into the 1880s, I believe - cows were kept at a stand in St. James's Park and milked as required for customers, who were chiefly nurses and children

Colin

[Colin Moretti]

And this:

We said, in the earlier part of this work, that the most aristocratic parishes are not without their back-ground of wretchedness; that they have their Rookeries, though not always such dens of destitution as those of St. Giles's. In a pamphlet addressed to the inhabitants of St. James, Westminster, by the Hon. Frederick Byng, in 1847, is the following statement:-
" There are in the parish,-
14 Cow-sheds,
2 Slaughter Houses,
3 Boiling Houses,
7 Bone Stores,
1 Zincing Establishment. "
It then proceeds :- "Two of these sheds are situated at the angle of Hopkins and New Streets (real Rookeries), and range one above the other, within a yard of the back of the houses in New Street. Forty cows are kept in them, two in each seven feet of space. There is no ventilation save by the unceiled tile roof, through which the ammoniacal vapours escape to the destruction of the health of the inmates. Besides the animals, there is, at one end, a large tank for grains, a store-place for turnips and hay, and between them a receptacle into which the liquid manure drains, and the solid is heaped. At the other end is a capacious vault with a brick partition, one division of which contains mangold-wurzel, turnips, and potatoes; and the other a dirty liquid, called brewers' wash, a portion of which is pumped up, and mixed with the food of the cows."

[Peter Goodey]

Earle St is now known as EARLHAM St; west of Seven Dials it was Little Earle St, east was Great Earle St. (Source: A to Z of Regency London)

Well found, Colin!

As NicaG doesn't seem to be very familiar with London, it may be worth pointing out that the Seven Dials area is quite trendy these days but was pretty seedy in Victorian times

See, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Dials

[NicaG]

Wow, thank you.
Well, my gggrandad's name was William Lilly and his wife was Martha. In further census that I have found re my ggrandfather his name was also William but he spelled his surname Lilley!
I don't know London at all Peter, you are quite right. The source of the certificate Peter is my cousin, who unfortunately has died since. But, (and I know I shouldn't use the word 'instincts' ) her instincts seemed to follow the same direction that mine were taking me.
I must admit, seeing 'Little Earle ' I was assuming it was a farm or village so.......thank you for that!!!
No, I haven't found him on the 1851 or 1841 census but I havent' checked yet, I am trying to get information that I have together first. To be honest had I looked before asking this question I would have probably had to check too many, your answers have let me narrow the field xx
I will have a look at the links you have suggested, thank you again
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