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  1. #51
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormswift View Post
    The hulk record states he is married with 4 children. At the time the William I am looking for was married to an Eliza Bullock, they had 4 children by 1841 with twins being born sometime in 1842. My biggest problem with this possibility is that my link to William and Eliza is through their son Joseph. He is born in 1847 !!!
    mmm, well if William is the one who was transported then Eliza must have found Joseph under a gooseberry bush.
    William's conduct sheet shows where he was between arrival in 1842 and conditional pardon (CP) in 1853:

    https://
    search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-30,226,199,C,100

    Quote Originally Posted by stormswift View Post
    In the remarks it names his wife as Eliza from Severn Stoke. The twins mentioned in the previous post were baptized at Severn Stoke. There is however a discrepancy, there's a list of 4 names Sarah, Mary, Elizabeth and Ann if these are meant to be children then the names are wrong as 3 are boys!!!
    On the 'Founders and Survivors' site it has listed under Family and Relationships 'w. eliza at severn stoke; s. sarah, mary, elizabeth, ann'. It doesn't give a source reference. Presumably in this context s = sisters. Do these names fit with your William's sisters?

    https://
    foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/om1998

  2. #52
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormswift View Post
    Trial date and notes match the hulk record, apart from it says he killed a duck???
    This is an earlier offence.

    Berrow's Worcester Journal of 2 February 1837 reports that William Tippin was committed to the county gaol 'charged with stealing a drake, at Powick'. Perhaps it is significant that there are baptisms at Powick for two children of William and Eliza Tippin, Thomas in 1834 and Eliza in 1837 (according to FamilySearch).

    Berrow's Worcester Journal of 10 March 1842 has an account of the trial of 33 year old William Tippin, labourer, at the Worcestershire Lent Assizes. Police Superintendent William Craig gave evidence that he 'took the prisoner into custody at his lodgings at Severn Stoke'.

    Edit: from your thread on RootsChat I see that in 1851 your Eliza (calling herself a widow) did have a 14 year old daughter Eliza born in Powick (and her parents have grandson Thomas with them). Also, importantly, her son Joseph seems to have been baptised as son of Eliza Tippen, not son of William & Eliza:

    https://www.
    rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=517551.0

    These bits of evidence suggest to me that the transported William was indeed your William BUT that he wasn't Joseph's father.

    The William who appears on the 1861-1881 censuses does say he was born in Upton, so I would think he did come back home after being pardoned.

  3. #53
    stormswift
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    Many thanks for your insight.

    I am not sure yet as to siblings. I have two possible Williams born in Upton. One the son of Richard and Sarah baptized Oct 1803, the other a son of William and Mary baptized Nov 1807. If they are as you suspect, sisters then that will help pinpoint which of the two is correct.

    Saying this is my William then there are four children who are most probably not his. Joseph as you mention, a daughter Elizabeth baptized in 1844. William is noted on Elizabeth's baptism. Also a Selena and John both baptized on the same day as Joseph with just Eliza as parent. Would there be any records that could give a clue as to their father?

    Would not a Condition Pardon effectively ban him from returning to England?

  4. #54
    Coromandel
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormswift View Post
    Would not a Condition Pardon effectively ban him from returning to England?
    Yes, I thought that too. He may have been allowed to go elsewhere in Australia:

    https://www.
    parliament.tas.gov.au/php/BecomingTasmania/ConvictFreedom08.pdf

    Of course not everyone obeyed the rules. In the Old Bailey Proceedings there are numerous trials of transported convicts who've been caught back in England and transported again. I guess there were also people who came back and got away with it.

    The alternative explanations are, as you've already suggested, that the William who was transported wasn't yours, or that the William with Eliza on the later censuses isn't the same one who was transported.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormswift View Post
    Saying this is my William then there are four children who are most probably not his . . . Would there be any records that could give a clue as to their father?
    If Eliza's husband had been transported, or died, or disappeared, she may have had to turn to the Poor Law Union for support. The Worcestershire Record Office does have some records of the Upton on Severn workhouse, which may shed light on matters:

    https://www.
    workhouses.org.uk/UptonUponSevern/

    The register of births 1835-1866 may be of particular interest.

    There may be clues as to the identity of the father or fathers of her illegitimate children, for example in court records if they were ordered to pay maintenance.

  5. #55
    stippin
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    Default Did Joseph emigrate to Canada late 1840s?

    I have similar notes on my ancestry although I think that there must be a missing generation between what you have and what I have. I have very similar names but with different dates. I am thinking that these must be family names (Eliza, William, Sarah) and think that the connection lies with Joseph that you have mentioned.

    If there is indeed a connection it would be with Joesph and more importantly for me, his brother William who left for Canada late 1840s it would help me make the leap from Canada to Europe in my research.
    Please contact me with any information that you may have.

  6. #56
    stormswift
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    Default re:Joseph

    Quote Originally Posted by stippin View Post
    I have similar notes on my ancestry although I think that there must be a missing generation between what you have and what I have. I have very similar names but with different dates. I am thinking that these must be family names (Eliza, William, Sarah) and think that the connection lies with Joseph that you have mentioned.

    If there is indeed a connection it would be with Joesph and more importantly for me, his brother William who left for Canada late 1840s it would help me make the leap from Canada to Europe in my research.
    Please contact me with any information that you may have.

    Hi stippin,
    I doubt very much that this family are who you are looking for as the dates wont match. Joseph was born in 1849, his brother William in 1835. I have William on the 1841 census as well as the 1881, but can not find him as yet in any other census. Being as he was born in 1835 he would be a little young to emigrate to Canada when the rest of his family are still in Worcestershire.
    That leaves the possibility that you'd have to go back a generation. My William had I believe four sisters, I have not yet found any brothers.

    Steve

  7. #57
    Brian Hancock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford Family View Post
    Wishing everyone on the board a Happy New Year!

    I am searching for any information re Issac HANCOCK, a convict that died on the Waterloo wreck.

    It appears that he was not tried at the Old Bailey but elsewhere.

    If anyone can locate details for this man (age, crime, length of sentence, age etc.) I would be most grateful.

    Kind Regards
    Hello Clifford Family,

    My name is Brian Hancock and my ancestor was Isaac Hancock (1804-1842). I have been trying to find out more information about his early years, including his marriage to Mary Ann Smith in 1822. I have been trying to find out more about him for over 25 years. Can you help by providing more information about him and why your family is asking about details of him.

    I realise this is a long shot but would appreciate a reply.

    Regards

    Brian Hancock

  8. #58
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Rhoose Point, South Wales
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hancock View Post
    Hello Clifford Family,

    My name is Brian Hancock and my ancestor was Isaac Hancock (1804-1842). I have been trying to find out more information about his early years, including his marriage to Mary Ann Smith in 1822. I have been trying to find out more about him for over 25 years. Can you help by providing more information about him and why your family is asking about details of him.

    I realise this is a long shot but would appreciate a reply.

    Regards

    Brian Hancock
    Hallo Brian, and a warm welcome to British Genealogy. CliffordFamily doesn't seem to have visited since 2011, but hopefully he hasn't changed his e-mail and your post will trigger an alert. You might like to click on his user name and send him a private message.

    There are public trees on Ancestry that say the marriage of Isaac Hancock to Mary Ann Smith took place on 28th March 1822 in Hempsted South hamlet, Gloucestershire. The marriage doesn't appear on the online images for Hempsted, Gloucestershire at this date, but I am not familiar enough with Gloucestershire parishes to know if the South Hamlet comes under something else. I know there were quite a few extra parochial hamlets in that area. If you are sure he came from Gloucestershire it might be an idea to start a separate thread on Isaac in the Gloucestershire forum, to attract local experts.
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  9. #59
    Wilkes_ml
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    I'm currently working with Gloucester parish registers around that time, and haven't come across "Hempted South Hamlet" as a parish in its own right. From what I have read (see here https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/ar...x?id=57378&p=0 on pg 95) and from my Phillimore atlas and index of parish registers, I can not see a Hempstead South Hamlet either. I suspect the marriage is in a neighbouring parish but the tree owner has made a mistake with the parish name. I also checked the Hempsted register online, and also found that the marriage wasn't in there. If I come across it in my searches, I'll make note of it.

  10. #60
    Wilkes_ml
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    just realised why I couldn't find it in the register! A quick search ( Ancestry came up trumps this time) showed Isaac HANCOOK {transcription error, as I read it as HANCOCK} of the hamlet of Littleworth married Mary SMITH of Hempsted married at Hempsted by banns 28th May 1822 (image 111 of 310)

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